About 1 month ago I was fortunate enough to pick up a LNIB Model 52-2 for $775. It's a beautiful piece of craftsmanship and shoots like a dream. I've shot many 100's with 5-7 X's at 25 yards timed fire (not as impressive as it sounds - I'm 66 years old now and use 2 hands). I'm sure the gun would shoot one ragged hole from a rest.

However, I've had one problem. About 2 rounds from each magazine fail to go into battery. A light push on the slide solves the problem, but this is obviously irritating if you're trying to shoot timed and rapid fire. It also feels like the slide is barely functioning compared to other semi-autos that I shoot.

I'm using my own handloads with Hornady 148 grain HBWC's and 2.8 grains Bullseye. I've been reloading .38 WC's since 1964, so I don't think I have an ammo problem. Just to be sure, I bit the bullet (so to speak) and bought a box each of Federal, Winchester, and Magtech commercial ammo. Exactly the same thing happened with all 3 brands; they also all seemed a bit weaker than my handloads.

I cleaned and lubed the gun prior to using it and the slide is very slick when I work it manually. Both the reloads and the commercial rounds drop freely into the chamber, so I don't think the chamber is too tight.

I'd certainly appreciate any suggestions from the Model 52 experts out there.

About 1 month ago I was fortunate enough to pick up a LNIB Model 52-2 for $775. It's a beautiful piece of craftsmanship and shoots like a dream. I've shot many 100's with 5-7 X's at 25 yards timed fire (not as impressive as it sounds - I'm 66 years old now and use 2 hands). I'm sure the gun would shoot one ragged hole from a rest.

However, I've had one problem. About 2 rounds from each magazine fail to go into battery. A light push on the slide solves the problem, but this is obviously irritating if you're trying to shoot timed and rapid fire. It also feels like the slide is barely functioning compared to other semi-autos that I shoot.

I'm using my own handloads with Hornady 148 grain HBWC's and 2.8 grains Bullseye. I've been reloading .38 WC's since 1964, so I don't think I have an ammo problem. Just to be sure, I bit the bullet (so to speak) and bought a box each of Federal, Winchester, and Magtech commercial ammo. Exactly the same thing happened with all 3 brands; they also all seemed a bit weaker than my handloads.

I cleaned and lubed the gun prior to using it and the slide is very slick when I work it manually. Both the reloads and the commercial rounds drop freely into the chamber, so I don't think the chamber is too tight.

I'd certainly appreciate any suggestions from the Model 52 experts out there.

Maybe the recoil spring is wore out and dos'nt have enough strength to return the slide.

Get a box of factory ammo and shoot it again.
I have had some minor miss feeds with reloaded ammo.

Limp wristing ???

I would also try a new recoil spring then go from there.
I've had my 52-1 for a year and it is such a joy to shoot.

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Where we go one, we go all

I have to agree with tsquared, one of the most frequently encountered feeding problems with autoloaders is limpwristing. When you don't hold the pistol firmly and allow the recoil to snap your wrist, you rob the slide of its momentum and it can't function properly. I guess it can be likened to jumping off a chair as opposed to trying to jump off a chair with wheels. Just my thoughts, I hope it helps.
Steve

HK,

Do you have a dot sight on the slide? I'm not an expert...but have real world lessons learned as a 52 shooter.

I experienced the same problem when I installed an Ultra Dot onto the slide (BME slide mount). When I had it on a Cal Grip, there were no issues with functioning. I replaced the recoil spring with a reduced power Wolff spring and that appeared to have fixed the problem.

Additionally, I discovered the type of lube you use on the slide rails affects the function as well. I had used Tetra grease thinking it will "slick" up the acton...wrong...it induced more drag and caused the fail to go into battery malfunction you described. I went back to Hoppe's oil and the problem went away. My 52 loves oil...I put a few drops at the start of a 900, prior to my SF...then more for the NMC...and again for RF (about every 30-60 rounds).

I have been shooting military contracted WCC 88 WC ammo and if I do my part, the gun will shoot clean TF with lots of Xs. You are right about it being able to shoot one hole groups at the short line.

The Mod 52 is a great shooting gun...if you do your part.

Regards,

Bob
Lakewood, WA

I would also say to try a new recoil spring and maybe a mainspring to. The 52 doesn't have much slide velocity going for it to start with. Good lube is a must on them.

Make sure the chamber is clean, crimp,sizing and LOA is correct and replace the recoil spring as necessary. Brad

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Brad Beck

Thanks for all your suggestions. I don't think this was limp-wristing or an ammo problem. Winchester, Federal, and Magtech ammo all gave the same problem as my reloads.

I ordered a Wolff standard spring (8 lbs) and received it today. It's about 1/2 inch longer than the spring that was in the gun - I don't know if that's because the old spring has been in the gun for 30 years or the previous owner cut it down. I'll try the gun this weekend with the new spring and give you a report.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions.

Sounds like a weak recoil spring. Use the correct weight and you should be fine. Also give the barrel chamber a good brushing.

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"Those that can't do, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym." Annie Hall

NRA Member

I'll try the gun this weekend with the new spring and give you a report.

Hello to all, new to the forum!
I have the -1 model and am experiencing the same problem as you. I am hoping you will be able to post what the outcome is after installing the new spring.

HK Smith - How many magazines have you tried? It sounds like maybe the magazine is causing some trouble.

One other thing you might try. Remember how we always used to have to tap the Colt .38 National Match magazines on the table to get all the shells lined-up, so the gun would function right? Did you try that with your 52 magazines? Loading those shells with their big rims in a semi-auto magazine can be a touchy thing. I always thought the Colts were junk because they never functioned when I was shooting them, until a more experienced Colt man explained how he loaded his magazines. After that, no problems! And then, I wished I had bought a NM .38!

If Winchester and Federal factory ammo do the same thing, I wouldn't worry about your handloads, for now anyway.

It is also possible the barrel is not quite properly fitted. You might give S&W a call for assistance. My 52-2 does this same thing. I am not a competition shooter and, being a little lazy about the 52 in general, never pursued it. Your gun is acting up much more than mine. Mine may choke maybe once every 50 or so rounds, if that.

The 52 is a fine gun, but mine never seemed to shoot up to my expectations! (Here, we can blame the shooter. ) I always had a terrible time with the trigger and shot the few NM .38s I was able to borrow a bit better - and with less effort.

HKSmith, we have three things in common that I know of: we're the same age, we both live in Ohio and we've both experienced the same malfunction from our 52s. I've shot Bullseye competitively since the early sixties, starting while shooting with the U.S.AirForce Air Police team and as late as last year at Camp Perry. Though the eyes are a liability now, I still shoot irons and with one hand .

Your stated experience (to me) rules out ammunition or "limp-wristing" factors. As you know, the 52 is one tight-fitted pistol and requires more than usual housekeeping standards to keep it running. It's also pretty sensitive to the choice of ammunition but mine has perked along for decades now on a diet of 2.8 grains of Bullseye.

I believe the "fix" has already been suggested by other posters: a new recoil spring. This assumes a clean gun and the correct ammunition. A secondary but far less likely scenario would be faulty magazines. And last on the list would be to check the clearance of the slide release/magazine relationship. But I'll be very surprised if the new spring doesn't do the trick.

Please advise as to what what you find out.

Thanks for all the replies. I got a new standard weight spring from Wolff's and installed it. Unfortunately, I'm still having the same problem. I have noticed that it happens less frequently when the gun has warmed up a bit, which suggests a lubrication problem.

SwampWolf's suggestion that this is a high maintenance pistol sounds like the probable cause. I'll field strip and scrub the slide and rails and use a lighter lube (RemOil) instead of the Miltech that I had been using.

SwampWolf: Yes, the eyes are a liability after about 50. I shot competitive Bullseye in the 1960's (mostly .22 indoors, 50 feet) on the Yale Pistol Team, which was, I'm sure, many rungs below the U.S. Air Force Air Police team. I do recall going to a match in about 1966 at an airbase near Springfield, MA. I shot .22 and .38 with a Model 18 and a Model 14. Did terribly, but got a lot of good advice from some very good military shooters, most of them in the Air Force. Maybe you were one of them!

It may well be a "high maintenance" pistol but I wouldn't call it "finicky". If your clean and lubed 52 still malfunctions after having installed a new recoil spring (and I know you don't want to hear this), I'd send it back to Smith and let them sort out the problem. Life's way too short to be dicking around with a problem that a quality pistol like the 52 shouldn't be havig.

I would like to be able to say that I was in some way instrumental in helping you along the way in your pistol shooting expertise but, alas, I was never stationed anywhere near Ma. Most of my Air Force time was spent in Anderson AFB in Guam and at Wurtsmith AFB in Oscoda, Mi. Long time ago!

Good morning, I too, am in the same situation with the 52 not seating all of the time, so this thread has been interesting to me. As far as sending the gun in to S&W,putting my 52 in a box and dropping it into a black hole makes me cringe a little. The way things are anymore, it would not surprise me if I never saw it again. Wolff sells a calibration kit which consists of 8,9 and 10 lb.springs, maybe you need a 9 or 10 lb. to overcome the binding you are experiencing.In 1966 I was 14 and looking forward to hearing from my big brother who was in the AF stationed as an MP in Chateaux France I have been meaning to order one, just have not done so yet.

palo 2219: if your brother was an "MP" in the Air Force, he was an AP (Air Police as opposed to Military Police).

I wouldn't worry too much about the "black hole". Chances are good that Smith will have it shipped to them on their dime-insured.

Thanks again for all the interesting discussion. I now think the problem may be temperature-related. I went to the range today and kept the gun on the front seat of my car instead of in the trunk - there were only 2 failures to go into battery out of 50 rounds instead of the 20-25 that I was getting before. I still feel the gun is a bit sluggish though and may talk to S&W about it.

Very timely reply 'Smith - I've followed this thread as I experienced similar FTE issues with my 52-2 that I've had for about a month. I replaced the recoil spring with a factory 8# from Wolff and a new S&W mag and cleaned well around the extractor. I don't think temp is a factor.
Still experiencing way too many FTEs (2-3 per mag). The only constant is the ammo - factory S&B. My next step to to reload some of my own and see if i can work up a load it likes with W231.

Regards,

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Ranger325

I too have been following this thread and can tell you that my reloads with 2.8 grains
of Bullseye with a 148g HBWC has worked flawlessly for all these years.
I was just given two boxes of S&B wadcutters and it will not cycle them, I get FTE's.
They are not quite strong enough to get the spent case out of the way, I was surprised.
Regards,
BM1

The 52 is very fussy about case length. Trim cases to the minimum length and seat bullets flush with the mouth. I have a seperate batch of brass trimmed this way that is only used in my 52-1.
Also bear in mind that just because you've been using a certian handload in other guns for years it does not mean that your 52 will like it. My 52 likes just a teeny bit more power than what I normally use in revolver WC loads to reliably cycle. I suggest that you experiment a bit and work up a load specificly for this pistol.
My 52-1 likes a Speer HBWC over 3.1 grs of W231 loaded in the previously mentioned minimum length brass. Once I worked out a load it likes, it has functioned perfectly.

Thanks for the feedback folks!! Very interesting about the S&B Bad-man, I was wondering.....................

Regards,

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Ranger325

My 52-2 has never been fed handloads, but functions fine with Win and Rem WC...A GREAT bullseye gun. I use it for the short course or 1800s. It wears Bo-Mar sights.
Bob

I use 3 grains of Bullseye and I make sure I have a pronounced taper crimp. Never had an issue and shoots great.

I have been following this thread. I initially assumed that limp wristing was the problem. If it is not then I would ake sure that the gun is lubed wet with Rem-Oil and repeat your experiment.

I shoot a 52-1 which is flawless with 2.8 gr. Bullseye, Rem 1.5 behind the Rem 148 gr. LHBWC. These are all loaded in the wadcutter brass not the normal 38 Sp brass. I have a large supply of brass from factory Remington 148 gr WC amo which I use to feed this fine firearm.

As an aside I am 73 years old and this gun can shoot much more reliably and precisely than I can hold.

I trust that you can iron out your problem and enjoy a truly superb firearm for bullseye pistol competition.

PS: I also use it for steel plate matches. I beats the pants off of some of the new shooters.

TSQUARED,
What is the difference between "wadcutter" brass and "the normal 38 Sp brass"?
Thanks,
BM1

Well, for those following the thread who care, it looks like my FTE issue is resolved.

I loaded up some 148g LHBWCs over 3.1, 3.2 and 3.3 W231 and tested them today. All functioned like a champ no problems whatsoever!! I only made 5 rounds per, and in that small sample the 3.1 had the best grouping.

As far as brass, I used 'plain old' Speer, S&W and RP headstamps.

No more factory S&B wadcutters in the 52-2 for me!! I'll shoot 'em through a wheelgun!

Regards,

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Ranger325

It does sound as if the FTE is resolved, but was not the original post concerninng FTC? (fails to chamber).I might have my acronyms screwed up, FTE is failure to eject right? I do have two additional quick questions, not being personally familiar with Bo Mar sights, what is the advantage over factory? I also have to say that I like the looks of the grips in the image of the 52 above. Mine are very dark. Any suggestions on a good wood cleaner that will not effect the checkering?

I was able to get the gun to cycle with a Wollf 7# recoil spring when I shoot the factory Sellier & Bellot ammo.
8# (Factory) when shooting the 2.8 grains of Bullseye with a 148g HBWC.
Regards,
BM1

Grayfox's comment mirrors my experience and I neglected to mention it a few months ago, in my initial post. Some people also think slower powders work better in 52s, thus 231 or something similar might be a good bet if Bullseye is not doing the trick. The comment about trimming brass to minimum makes perfect sense, but I admit I have not checked mine.

HKSmith, as your LNIB gun is used, it should wear itself in to a condition that suits it, and start to work better, so temperature may have nothing to do with it. The gun warms up pretty quickly when you start shooting it. I would think how clean it is and how you lube it would be more important. Having said that, I have shot more than a couple thousand rounds through my 52-2, trying to be systematic about cleaning and lubing it, and it still hiccups - even with handloaded ammunition that has been checked in a gage. Makes one think we are dealing with a very tightly chambered gun, thus the suggestion to trim the cases back to minimum is probably a very good one.

Speaking of wearing-in your 52-2, Gil Hebard once published a pretty extensive test of 52s, IIRC shooting them huge numbers of rounds and observing them carefully for accuracy. It seems the 52s did indeed not function up to their capability until they had shot-in, and then they went many, many thousands of rounds without substantial loss of accuracy. The number at which he found accuracy started to fall off escapes me now, but it seems it may have been around 75,000 rounds - maybe even more. I believe he tested four guns and got similar results across the board. At that time, the pistols appeared to be very consistent, from gun to gun.

This is an interesting topic, and the fact that it seems to be written by a bunch of 60+ shooters makes it more interesting. I am also a 60+ (68 last week)and still shooting with one hand, but now just .22 RF bullseye, (with a red dot). My shooting had been going gradually down hill the last several years, and the (indoor 50 ft. gallery round) scores were falling into the 250's range. I was determined this year to do better, and we just finished up our 10 week league, and I averaged 271 for the league. (Even shot a 91 slow fire one week).

I shot a 52-2 for 10 years, and a trick told my by Roy Jinks was to trim the brass .0010 shorter than minimum, but still seat the bullet the same length. This leaves a .0010 of lead exposed and it seemed to let the load slide into the chamber smoother and I never had a FTF in 10 years. I put a very slight taper crimp on the case mouth, and also used 2.8 Gr. Bullseye.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

+1 EXACTLY

Regards,
BM1

I too am a 73 year old bullseye shooter and benefited from the posts. I started back into hand loading, Dillon 450, and had some recent failure to return to battery problems. Using 3.2 gr 231 with Alberts HBWC's. In the past, my 52 always worked best almost dripping with oil. I checked all finished reloads with sizing die occasionally finding one that was tight.

I too have a 52-2 that has only fired reloads only, let me tell you about a time I let my brass get kind of ratty I have a falling plate machine and I was shooting steel plates and I had one that failed to go to battery and I pushed the slide forward and it fired!! I thought what happened, the next one did the same so I pushed it forward and what had happened I had left my finger in the trigger guard and 52's have such a light trigger pull I had apparently pulled back a little and fired it, I was alone and had no bad results but it was an eye opener. Lesson remove trigger finger from guard when closing the slide down. Jeff

Really cleaned and lubed my 52 and ran 50 3.2 231 Alberts HBWC's through it yesterday. Cycled fine, action wet with oil. Ordered a Wolf spring kit for it.

I too had failure to feed in my M52-1 with factory ammo and reloads.

Ever since I started trimming my brass I have had not one alibi or failure to feed.

My recipe:

Remington cases trimmed to 1.130"
Inside mouth chamfer
Inside flash hole chamfer
148gr Remington HBWC seated to 1.170"
2.8gr Bullseye powder
Roll crimp to .370"
Winchester small pistol magnum primers seated .007" below flush

I just shot a 872-26x today in the centerfire match at the Desert mid Winter match here in Phoenix today.

I have standard spring in it from Wolff.
A 1" Ultradot on a BME mount that mounts into the front groove of the dust shield(where the weight used to go).

Just my .02 cents worth.

Clarence Perkins

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