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Old 11-07-2021, 01:25 AM
m&p2.0fdethumbsafety m&p2.0fdethumbsafety is offline
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dear s&w engineers,

foremost i want to express my belief that s&w is the current best gun manufacturer in the world. the only major one that is still all american owned and true patriots(unlike the usurpers and traitors at springfield armory). perpetual innovators, craftsmen, and artists of the highest order making easily the most reliable, consistent, tough and beautiful pistol designs of all time. i was absolutely appalled when the blatantly unsafe self firing melted block of cheese with a handle called sig p320 won the contract instead of the now undeniably proven m&p 2.0 fde with thumb safety(the best looking and shooting handgun in the world).



i appreciate how you never stop innovating and coming out with new versions and improvements all the time. you've invented arguably an entirely new category of guns with the ez 380. ahead of the curve and always keeping the end user in mind unlike glock which has taken its monopoly for granted and made zero real improvements and stopped taking consumer feedback on board since the 90s.

with that out of the way i'd like to suggest a direction you may take with your bodyguard line of pistols. it is arguably the less popular among all of the m&p products because it competes in a field where the options are simply too abundant. but like how you copied the glock and made the sigma(very fitting because s&w is the sigma male of the gun world), improved it in every way and evolved it into the m&p 9 and all its derivatives like shield, compact, 22, ez, etc, which took the police and civilian world by storm, i think you can take the best qualities of the top sub compact/pocket carry and synergize it towards making the bodyguard 2.0, which can become the defacto civilian and police deep concealment pistol.

to do that lets look at the best qualifies of pocket carry among your competitors. i reluctantly cite sig p238. their in-house designs are garbage, but the p238 is based on an old colt design, so it's safe and reliable. what makes it shootable? its metal frame confers more mass to handle recoil, and its grip panel allows custom grips to be installed, the popular hogue wraparound gives the hand a solid purchase. the p238's single action trigger is based on the 1911 and has a ~7 lbs weight. from this data we can surmise that the bodyguard needs only three improvements to become top dog:

one: it needs a steel frame insert much like the m&p 2.0 which adds stability and weight to the firearm improving shooting harmonics and recoil reduction. two: it needs a lighter trigger that is set closer to the hand. why closer to the hand? because three: you are going to make the grip wider for better hand purchase which again will improve shootability. this also allows the bottom of the grip to be wider so we can cut a magwell taper. as for how light of a trigger. we know s&w is the only company that is sensible enough to provide thumb safety options from the factory, at the same time, many may want to forgo the safety alltogether or keep it toggled off at all times. i would suggest an ~8 lbs trigger may be necessary as a compromise especially if you go with a redesigned 1911 style long lever thumb safety.

thank you for reading.
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Old 11-07-2021, 07:49 AM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety View Post
dear s&w engineers,

foremost i want to express my belief that s&w is the current best gun manufacturer in the world. the only major one that is still all american owned and true patriots(unlike the usurpers and traitors at springfield armory). perpetual innovators, craftsmen, and artists of the highest order making easily the most reliable, consistent, tough and beautiful pistol designs of all time. i was absolutely appalled when the blatantly unsafe self firing melted block of cheese with a handle called sig p320 won the contract instead of the now undeniably proven m&p 2.0 fde with thumb safety(the best looking and shooting handgun in the world).



i appreciate how you never stop innovating and coming out with new versions and improvements all the time. you've invented arguably an entirely new category of guns with the ez 380. ahead of the curve and always keeping the end user in mind unlike glock which has taken its monopoly for granted and made zero real improvements and stopped taking consumer feedback on board since the 90s.

with that out of the way i'd like to suggest a direction you may take with your bodyguard line of pistols. it is arguably the less popular among all of the m&p products because it competes in a field where the options are simply too abundant. but like how you copied the glock and made the sigma(very fitting because s&w is the sigma male of the gun world), improved it in every way and evolved it into the m&p 9 and all its derivatives like shield, compact, 22, ez, etc, which took the police and civilian world by storm, i think you can take the best qualities of the top sub compact/pocket carry and synergize it towards making the bodyguard 2.0, which can become the defacto civilian and police deep concealment pistol.

to do that lets look at the best qualifies of pocket carry among your competitors. i reluctantly cite sig p238. their in-house designs are garbage, but the p238 is based on an old colt design, so it's safe and reliable. what makes it shootable? its metal frame confers more mass to handle recoil, and its grip panel allows custom grips to be installed, the popular hogue wraparound gives the hand a solid purchase. the p238's single action trigger is based on the 1911 and has a ~7 lbs weight. from this data we can surmise that the bodyguard needs only three improvements to become top dog:

one: it needs a steel frame insert much like the m&p 2.0 which adds stability and weight to the firearm improving shooting harmonics and recoil reduction. two: it needs a lighter trigger that is set closer to the hand. why closer to the hand? because three: you are going to make the grip wider for better hand purchase which again will improve shootability. this also allows the bottom of the grip to be wider so we can cut a magwell taper. as for how light of a trigger. we know s&w is the only company that is sensible enough to provide thumb safety options from the factory, at the same time, many may want to forgo the safety alltogether or keep it toggled off at all times. i would suggest an ~8 lbs trigger may be necessary as a compromise especially if you go with a redesigned 1911 style long lever thumb safety.

thank you for reading.
The Bodyguard .380 doesnít need much to make it better. A steel frame insert would be fine, but itís not essential. Iíve had mine for three years I think and I havenít fired 500 rounds through it. Shootability? Itís not a range gun, itís a deep concealment, up close and personal, get off me, point and shoot, last ditch effort, firearm. Itís fine for what it is. I shoot it once a year, 25 rounds of carry ammo (just ball ammo, not even hollow points.), and 100 rounds of my reloads. Never a failure to fire or eject. Only issue I had was the mag release. It was too flimsy. Under recoil my knuckle would brush up against it and unseat the mag. I could almost look at it sternly and it would pop the mag. Even the metal S&W replacement would do it. It wasnít just the catch; it was the mechanism itself. Replaced it with a Galloway Precision, which specifically addresses the issue in their literature, and problem solved.

It doesnít need any more size and weight. That would go against its whole purpose. So small and light you can forget you have it. I bet you people have washed these guns by accident with the laundry, theyíre so light. A metal frame would be a big turn-off for me. I love metal guns and still adore my several 3rd gen guns, but theyíve all been relegated to range toys and home defense. For carry, smaller and lighter win every time. Tapered mag well? For what? Smoother magazine changes under fire? I donít even carry a second magazine for this gun or any other. Itís shoot and run for me, baby. Between keys, phone, wallet, and loose change, I have enough in my pockets. Not throwing a loose mag in there, as well.

1911 design? Target a very small niche of people who want a cocked and locked firearm for deep concealment? It would be a flop. Not to mention the gun is now more snag prone. Drawing a cocked and locked firearm from a pocket? Youíre guaranteed to catch some fabric. No thanks.

Hogue grip? Nope. Make the grip fatter? Nope. Talon Grips are much better. I had them on my Shield 1.0. Not needed on the Shield Plus I now have, but I still have them on my Ruger LC9S. Far better grip and no increase in size. I should look into them for my Bodyguard. Newer versions of the Bodyguard should come with the aggressive grip texture like they have on the 2.0.

A lighter trigger? No thanks. People complain about the long and heavy pull. Itís fine for itís purpose. Matter of fact, the Bodyguard is the ONLY semi auto I would put in my pocket with the safety off. I LIKE the trigger pull because itís appropriate for its purpose. I like the double strike capability, too.

While weíre talking about safeties, which I have on ALL my M&P pistols, I think they all need an overhaul. The one on the Bodyguard is too flush. I draw and flick off and I can do it easily enough, but under stress I donít know. So much so that itís the only semi auto with a safety I own that I carry safety off. The trigger pull is long enough to prevent any NDís. The safety on the Bodyguard should have a bit more of a ledge to get your thumb on. Same with the Shield. But the ones on the larger sizes, like your FDE one, are obnoxiously big, not positive enough(kind of mushy), and they donít need to be ambidextrous. With all the aftermarket support for the M&P line, I donít know why somebody doesnít offer a smaller, single sided safety for the larger guns, and a slightly larger one for the Bodyguard and Shield. Itís a piece of plastic, for Godís sake! S&W sells the plugs to take the safety out. Make a new one sided, slightly smaller one for the Compact and full size models, change out the ball and indent so itís a more positive click, and plug up the frame on the side you donít want a safety on. Offer a right and left side version and be done with it! For the Shield and Bodyguard, just make a slightly wider version of the factory one. I can replace virtually every other part on the thing, but not the safety. Apex and Galloway Precision need to offer one. Iíd replace the safety on every M&P I own immediately.

A few tweaks and the Bodyguard could be better, but it doesnít need a major overhaul.

Last edited by kbm6893; 11-07-2021 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 11-07-2021, 12:55 PM
m&p2.0fdethumbsafety m&p2.0fdethumbsafety is offline
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i understand its philosophy of use, but if it's painful to shoot, it's not going to be shot often, and therefore people will avoid practicing with it. your carry gun should be shot as often if not more than your range guns. think about it, your range gun is unlikely to be involved in a violent encounter. depending on where you live, even your home defense ar-15s and shotguns may not likely be employed compared to your personal carry. i think by improving its shootability and inherent ease of use, it will encourage more use of it.


more practice and familiarity with your daily carry gun means the elimination of any and all liability. not to mention there are situations where you may be forced to engage in long distance. the person who practices more often is going to be able to make that shot without the possibility of missing and striking a bystander. as we've learned too often from police shootings, bystanders may be injured simply from the ricochet, some have even died from being struck in the head or eye from fragments. putting all rounds on target is absolutely crucial.



as for the safety,i agree it's too flush that's why i suggested a 1911 style long lever, the type used on current full size m&p and some of the shields would fit that purpose. i don't foresee any cloth catching issues if the back of the safety is streamlined. the 1911 safety is designed with a rounded back just like the back of many sights to avoid catching.


i think the reason the bodyguard 1.0's safety is so small and flush is because people want it to be as flush to the body as possible. and i suspect the trigger pull was designed to be so long and heavy because s&w anticipated that many people may simply disengage the safety whenever they are carrying and enable it again when they returned home. i think a 1911 style safety designed in the style of the shield's safety, ie smaller, more rounded and flush, would fit the purpose of the bodyguard 2.0, especially because it would need to be disengaged and engaged during a fight like a thumb safety is traditionally used. therefore i suggested a lighter trigger pull is compensation of this with the added advantage of better accuracy and handling

Last edited by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety; 11-07-2021 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 11-07-2021, 08:42 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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Itís not painful to shoot. Itís not as pleasant as a full size gun but physics is what it is. Super light and small plus equals more felt recoil. Itís no more unpleasant to shoot than the airweight J frames.

Shooting for distance? Never gonna happen with this gun or any other. If the threat is that far away itís not a threat. If itís shooting at me Iím not gonna be lining up sights. Good way to go to prison.

Safety can be slightly larger and not affect reliability. The one on the Ruger LC9 and SR9 is great.

The BG is what it is. It wouldnít sell enough to warrant a totally new design change. I know I wouldnít buy one.
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Old 11-07-2021, 10:39 PM
MetalGunGuy MetalGunGuy is offline
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I know this is your thread, but I'm going to add one additional element: make a 9mm version.

This is needed because 1) there's no 9mm J frame and 2) the Shield Plus is more of a waistband gun and not suitable for pocket carry.

Overall, i think there's demand out there for a ~16 oz true pocket 9.
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Old 11-16-2021, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by m&p2.0fdethumbsafety View Post
i understand its philosophy of use, but if it's painful to shoot, it's not going to be shot often, and therefore people will avoid practicing with it. your carry gun should be shot as often if not more than your range guns. think about it, your range gun is unlikely to be involved in a violent encounter. depending on where you live, even your home defense ar-15s and shotguns may not likely be employed compared to your personal carry. i think by improving its shootability and inherent ease of use, it will encourage more use of it.


more practice and familiarity with your daily carry gun means the elimination of any and all liability. not to mention there are situations where you may be forced to engage in long distance. the person who practices more often is going to be able to make that shot without the possibility of missing and striking a bystander. as we've learned too often from police shootings, bystanders may be injured simply from the ricochet, some have even died from being struck in the head or eye from fragments. putting all rounds on target is absolutely crucial.



as for the safety,i agree it's too flush that's why i suggested a 1911 style long lever, the type used on current full size m&p and some of the shields would fit that purpose. i don't foresee any cloth catching issues if the back of the safety is streamlined. the 1911 safety is designed with a rounded back just like the back of many sights to avoid catching.


i think the reason the bodyguard 1.0's safety is so small and flush is because people want it to be as flush to the body as possible. and i suspect the trigger pull was designed to be so long and heavy because s&w anticipated that many people may simply disengage the safety whenever they are carrying and enable it again when they returned home. i think a 1911 style safety designed in the style of the shield's safety, ie smaller, more rounded and flush, would fit the purpose of the bodyguard 2.0, especially because it would need to be disengaged and engaged during a fight like a thumb safety is traditionally used. therefore i suggested a lighter trigger pull is compensation of this with the added advantage of better accuracy and handling
You are kidding aren't you????
The Bodyguard is and has always been a "carry in the pocket get off me firearm." If you are shooting at long distance with this gun, you better have a lawyer lined up in case you hit what you are pointing at
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