If this forum had a say with Smith & Wesson

[Laketime]

I know this is pure fantasy but I would love to hear your ideas. I would love to see the new Tennessee factory be dedicated to old school classic revolvers made the way they use to at what ever it cost. Also an expanded dedicated to the 1911 line up .Bring back the wood shop .Then finally offer an expanded line of Hunting / Woods carry revolver's done in baked camo finishes accompanied with a line of hunting knives. Springfield to continue to make the modern poly guns with more built in lasers to keep the younger guys happy. What would some of you guys add to this

[H Richard]

The new factory will be dedicated to all the semi's and new design. The old factory will be dedicated to revolvers, (in other words a very low production). The laws of various states and MA make it too difficult to continue to produce "modern" handguns there.

[ladder13]

I’ll take a factory Jovino in 45 Colt minus the grease fitting.

[Autonomous]

I'll try to be realistic given market and economic realities.
Institute better quality control. This will cost money but fewer guns being shipped both ways on S&Ws dime for warranty work will save money.
Make the Performance Center models actual enhanced guns, not just cheesy added features. Short of that, drop the BS label altogether.

[Rustyt1953]

I think it is smart what S&W is going to do.

Delegate the Northern plant to their revolvers while the Southern plant will do their pistols which are their best sellers now.

They studied the demographics and know who their growing customer base is.

[Puller]

They could use some input from customers. I just browsed the S&W website and wasn't really enthused by the offerings. Bring back the 3 inch heavy barrel model 65.

[Laketime]

I own two 586's with a lock. The 586 series is the only new revolver I would consider buying , only because in my opinion they come the closest to feeling and looking like the original models I use to own.

[WR Moore]

The comment was made about automobiles, but works for most consumer goods: "Whoever sells their bananas cheaper will sell more bananas, brown spots or not."

Given the CNC machining centers now in use, changing features on anything involves more than just skipping steps/eliminating parts. The code monkeys have to rewrite the programs and verify correctness*. And, one has to get the legal team (actually, there's a slew of "stakeholders" who have to get involved) to go along.

*There's a whole lot more to changing over production lines for different models than there used to be. Dunno if the CNC machines can store multiple programs and all the operators/setup people have to do is select from a menu. When I was on a production floor, the CNC machines were dedicated to one item.

[The Norseman]

If I was in charge of S&W Firearms, I would definitely
be reading this S&W Forum for it’s great ideas.

I would also move all S&W manufacturing to the west,
particularly to South Dakota. I would definitely build
whatever Facilities to manufacture Guns and
Machined Goods for other Industries.

I think their Quality Control is there but they are some
how bond to influences we do not see.

With my Machining back ground, Stockholders would
be happy, and if I’m visiting the Shop Areas you know
I’m there for a reason (and it’s probably not
going to be good).

[bigwheelzip]

A build to order capability, from a standard set of options, like Dell Computers online build page.

A Performance Center treatment available for a 3" 681 Plus.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Like all distributers that came before.............IF......You place an order of 2500 or more pieces S&W will make whatever you desire.

GO FOR IT OP........It's only money.

[Laketime]

Originally Posted by Rustyt1953

I think it is smart what S&W is going to do.

Delegate the Northern plant to their revolvers while the Southern plant will do their pistols which are their best sellers now.

They studied the demographics and know who their growing customer base is.

I'm from Massachusetts and the restrictions in that state are not revolver friendly as far as finishes and state EPA regulations. And the lock was added just for reference to appease the state at the time. Sort of a thrown bone to the state ( per Springfield factory reps ) This was a few years after the infamous drop test was put into law.

[Laketime]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

Like all distributers that came before.............IF......You place an order of 2500 or more pieces S&W will make whatever you desire.

GO FOR IT OP........It's only money.

So in other words you have no opinion on the topic is what you mean.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

Like all distributers that came before.............IF......You place an order of 2500 or more pieces S&W will make whatever you desire.

GO FOR IT OP........It's only money.

I think it is 500 but could be more.

Many years ago there was a thread in the semi auto section to get S&W to produce a gun for those interested.

Problem was, everyone had a different idea on which gun, no one offered to start by gathering the money. No one wanted to hold the money.
It was disorganized, and never got past dreams.

9, 45, 40…. full size, compact,stainless, blue.

Best to just lobby them, imo.

[lkabug]

My wish.....
When a new gun is introduced, support it. Get the guns to the dealers. Get the magazines out there where they can be purchased. This stuff of having new issues bring backorder for what seems to be months isn't good for anyone.

[hyena]

My wants are simpler. A Bodyguard Plus, ala the LCP MAX. 10+1 in the same size and weight as my Bodyguard.

I already told Ruger put a thumb safety on theirs and I'm in.

[JWintergreen]

Half Lug .357 L frames
Mountain Guns
More fixed sight revolvers
A 856/K6S/Cobra Competitor (ala Model 73 C frame)
Ditch the ridiculous meme shotgun and bring back the 3000
Better QC

[Laketime]

More kit guns would also be of interest especially for woods carry.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Laketime

I own two 586's with a lock. The 586 series is the only new revolver I would consider buying , only because in my opinion they come the closest to feeling and looking like the original models I use to own.

I am tempted by the short barreled 586 since the originals are $$$$$$’s.

[Puller]

Originally Posted by The Norseman

If I was in charge of S&W Firearms, I would definitely
be reading this S&W Forum for it’s great ideas. {snip}

I think they are reading the S&W Forum, that's why they are making so many Glock-like firearms and 1911 clones.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Originally Posted by Laketime

So in other words you have no opinion on the topic is what you mean.

Okay I'll add mine........Bring back ALL the mountain gun series in all the calibers. Especially the one in .22 that they snuck out. Sold a few and quit.

[Doug44]

If they tried to satisfy all of us they would go belly up in short order.

[Lowa]

Smiths are NOT Taurus and will never compete with each other.

QC, QC, QC.

I think everybody can agree on pencil barrels on all of the L frames. They can still make a few full lug 686 models, but all of their performance guns have those ugly slab slanty type barrels.

[jschmidt]

I'd like an M&P 9 4" compact that's ported and optics ready. So basically a ported CORE.

[Racer X]

I'd like it if the M&P 10mm shipped with more than 1 magazine. And we could order spares from S&W.

[quikdraw67]

Made the CSX as a DA/SA pistol

I'd buy one, and I suspect a lot of others would as well.

[shocker]

Originally Posted by ladder13

I think it is 500 but could be more.

Many years ago there was a thread in the semi auto section to get S&W to produce a gun for those interested.

Problem was, everyone had a different idea on which gun, no one offered to start by gathering the money. No one wanted to hold the money.
It was disorganized, and never got past dreams.

9, 45, 40…. full size, compact,stainless, blue.

Best to just lobby them, imo.

I think it's dollar volume - nowadays something like $3 million minimum for a production run that requires tooling or engineering changes.

[Countrycuz]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

Okay I'll add mine........Bring back ALL the mountain gun series in all the calibers. Especially the one in .22 that they snuck out. Sold a few and quit.

I agree
Heard they made less than a thousand.22's
What was that all about? Also a J or K kit gun in .32 mag.

[505Gibbs]

They WILL follow the money - PERIOD!!!

[bucksnort18]

A department that built the Classics would be nice. Too much plastic and stainless, not that I don't like stainless (easier to clean). but I do miss polished BLUE guns. Just sayin...

[Ackley1952]

I hope the management of S&W dedicate themselves to making a profit for the company. I’m not sure CZ and Ruger have enough liquid assets to buy S&W from the bankruptcy court at this time. Now Norinco is plenty strong enough to take over but government may not allow that. I’ll just bet the management at S&W know almost as much about running a profitable company as we do.

[Bald1]

As long as we’re in fantasy land I want the classic line expanded and eliminate the locks. It’s probably cheaper to manufacture without the lock. Do they legally have to continue the lock forever? I don’t know the details of the deal they made.

[6string]

Back in the earlier days of Thompson/Center, there was an organization called the "Thompson Center Association".
They used to arrange group buys, mostly of special limited run barrels in unique lengths and chamberings, but also of Contender pistols as well.
These days, on the Cast Boolit Forum, they do an abundant number of group buys for special order molds.

So, why not propose such deal with Smith and Wesson and this forum and/or the SWCA? Set a minimum order number and commitment to buy.
I don't think the "cheapest is bestest" rule would matter much.
Look what "dash 2" N frames are selling for! Or, look at the price tag of Manurhin, Korth, Janz, or the new Spohr revolvers!
They could charge a healthy premium to make it worth the effort.
So, first up, we bring back the Registered Magnum, complete with custom order barrel lengths, sights, and registration certificates.
I'd propose they include a machine rest test target and guaranteed accuracy standard. (say, 5 shots within 1" at 25 yards.)
Price them somewhere between $2,000 and $2,500.
I think they'd sell.

[raljr1]

Originally Posted by WR Moore

Given the CNC machining centers now in use, changing features on anything involves more than just skipping steps/eliminating parts. The code monkeys have to rewrite the programs and verify correctness*. And, one has to get the legal team (actually, there's a slew of "stakeholders" who have to get involved) to go along.

*There's a whole lot more to changing over production lines for different models than there used to be. Dunno if the CNC machines can store multiple programs and all the operators/setup people have to do is select from a menu. When I was on a production floor, the CNC machines were dedicated to one item.

CNC machines today can store hundreds or even thousands of different programs. Tooling changeovers can be made in minutes, or at least less than half an hour. Some tooling can be set ups so an operator is changing parts on one table while the machine is working on parts on another table for a different model. Changes to programs take minutes. Much has changed since the days of dedicating one machine to one part. Almost no one does that anymore. I spent 49 years in manufacturing plants from machinist to president. The technology today is amazing.

[LCC]

.32 mag 6 shot small frame in 2" and 3" - I'll buy one of each.

[Countrycuz]

I was ready to jump in to the.,32/.327 market a few years ago but SW bailed out and ammo was hard to find. It's just like the the new 30 super carry, I get the concept but it won't succeed without industry support

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by 6string

So, first up, we bring back the Registered Magnum, complete with custom order barrel lengths, sights, and registration certificates.
I'd propose they include a machine rest test target and guaranteed accuracy standard. (say, 5 shots within 1" at 25 yards.)
Price them somewhere between $2,000 and $2,500.
I think they'd sell.

A few years ago it was easy to find a 686 in 2.5”, 3”, 4”, 5”, 6” or 7” and changing out the front or rear sight is relatively cheap if you don’t like the stock one. They couldn’t sell them unless they priced them in the $700 range. As far as a gun registration goes, I’m guessing most won’t be interested.

[Greyman50]

Originally Posted by raljr1

CNC machines today can store hundreds or even thousands of different programs. Tooling changeovers can be made in minutes, or at least less than half an hour. Some tooling can be set ups so an operator is changing parts on one table while the machine is working on parts on another table for a different model. Changes to programs take minutes. Much has changed since the days of dedicating one machine to one part. Almost no one does that anymore. I spent 49 years in manufacturing plants from machinist to president. The technology today is amazing.

Robert is correct, as usual, lol. Today machining centers capabilities are amazing. Most have automatic tool changing ability coupled with robotic loading and unloading a human only “ pushes the bottom” if that. Many large work pieces are on pallets, use robots or ride a “ track” from machine to machine to complete the part. Crankshafts can be milled from the raw forged billet to ready to install in just a few hours, most of that is in annealing before grinding. Machine tools today programming systems are in small containers the size of desk top computers. 30+ years ago the same machine would have needed 20-30 feet of climate controlled cabinets. Todays inspection/ measuring/ QC systems are accurate to .OOO1” or more, simply amazing.

[M29since14]

It really doesn’t matter but what WRMoore said is pretty much completely wrong nowadays. Robert’s summary in post 36 much more accurately describes modern CNC machining. It’s not the 50s and 60s any more! - thank God! The downside is that, unfortunately, keeping pace with machining technology is terribly expensive. Really tough for the small shops. Generating “code” is the least of one’s worries.

I have to agree that we’d all put S&W out of business if they followed our advice. I’m just happy S&W has not totally abandoned revolvers and that they continue to come up with (IMO) some interesting products. Time marches on.

[shocker]

Originally Posted by Bald1

As long as we’re in fantasy land I want the classic line expanded and eliminate the locks. It’s probably cheaper to manufacture without the lock. Do they legally have to continue the lock forever? I don’t know the details of the deal they made.

HUD Archives: Agreement Between Smith &amp Wesson and the Departments of the Treasury and Housing and Urban Development, Local Governments and States

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by shocker

HUD Archives: Agreement Between Smith &amp Wesson and the Departments of the Treasury and Housing and Urban Development, Local Governments and States

Thankfully they haven’t implemented half the items in the agreement. Given the fact that they haven’t abided by a significant number of the terms I think getting rid of the lock seems like a reasonable possibility.

I’m guessing all the old tooling has been discarded or updated for the new frame shape and that costs related to changing everything back is a larger hurdle.

[ZGrand]

I guess you know all these wishes are just that -- wishes. I'm sure S&W is like every other large company in this country -- run by the bean counters. Anything that would reduce any profit from the balance sheet ain't gonna happen.

[Laketime]

Zgard you never know what will happen. Everyone was not expecting the return of the Python and other Colt classics.

[Dvan34]

I love the 1911. Back when I was in the Marine Corps I didn't. I considered it a very dangerous handgun, for the users. Probably because so many were not careful and knowledgeable about handling them. Too many accidental discharges resulting in injuries. Now comparing it to the striker fired semi's I love it. You see one, pick it up and know immediately if it could be fired. The hammer back? It can fire, if the safety is disengaged ( Another safety item). Too bad here in Kalifornia they are not on the list of saleable handguns.

[Laketime]

Originally Posted by Dvan34

I love the 1911. Back when I was in the Marine Corps I didn't. I considered it a very dangerous handgun, for the users. Probably because so many were not careful and knowledgeable about handling them. Too many accidental discharges resulting in injuries. Now comparing it to the striker fired semi's I love it. You see one, pick it up and know immediately if it could be fired. The hammer back? It can fire, if the safety is disengaged ( Another safety item). Too bad here in Kalifornia they are not on the list of saleable handguns.

That's just not right since they are a favorite of Hollywood

[ladder13]

Bring back some fixed sight N frames with the old style frame and skip the zerk fitting.

[martyd]

Colt did it - Brought Back the Snake Revolvers.

Maybe Smith should reconsider and bring back the Vintage Guns with the same quality.

I suspect Smith could easily bring back the Vintage Guns if they wanted to.

However, the Quality Issue: We simply do not have the Craftsmen to day as that of the Pre-War and Post-War era.

[Ghost Magnum]

I had a idea for a 586 I call the combat special. 5 inch barrel, matt blue finish, 7 shot cylinder cut for moon clips, all the custom trigger work done and round butt grip.

[Murdock]

How about a run of a few hundred .22 LR and/or .22 WRM auxilliary cylinders to fit the Model 53 .22 Jet?

[lrrifleman]

Since we are sharing our wishes, I will advance mine. Initially, it doesn't involve releasing any new or vintage products, but more so, taking a page out of Glock's book and advance our sport!

By creating the Glock Sport Shooting Foundation (GSSF), it is getting Glock owners out to the range, promoting safe gun handling, and developing/nurturing shooting skills, while also cultivating a pool of repeat customers! Currently, the GSSF outdoor courses of fire would require negligible modification to become revolver friendly! The course of fire for every entry (type of pistol) includes:
A) a 5 paper target stage (fired 3 times)
B) a 4 paper target stage with a pepper popper, (fired 3 times) and
C) a rack of six steel plates (fired 4 times).

Typically, paper targets are placed at 5 to 25 yards maximum, and steel is positioned at 11 yards. Initially, GSSF used the NRA D1 "Tombstone" target, but they have recently adopted their own proprietary non-humanoid target.

Each course of fire is scored time plus penalty for dropped points and misses. The aggregate of the 3 stages determines match standings. For the outdoor events, each entry is $30, requires a GSSF membership ($30-35 a year), and they recommend bringing 150 rounds per entry. Members that have either won 3 Glocks in Competition or hold a master classification in the recognized shooting sports are deemed "Masters", while those that have not reached the pinnacle are deemed Amateurs. I am currently classed an Amateur, and can complete each course of fire with 81 rounds of ammunition, except for the Pocket Glock and Major Sub divisions, which I can complete with 54 rounds. For the 2 Amateur exclusive divisions (Amateur Civilian and Amateur Guardian), they have the following subcategories and award a $75 to the highest score in the subcategory: Female, Junior Female, Junior Male, Senior (55+), Super Senior (65+), and Challenged.

Based on entries and membership fees, the GSSF is relatively self sustaining. If a division has at least 10 Masters/15 Amateurs, a pistol is awarded in each class per division. If there are fewer than the stated minimum, first place gets $100, second and third places get Glock swag (currently an E-tool and a fighting knife). All that is really needed is a host club. The average shooting day may run 7-8 hours, but depending on backup, four entries could be fired in under 3-4 hours.

Just imagine how many Smith owners would participate, and how many would become repeat buyers in order to be able to compete in all of the offered divisions! Just visualize if S&W created a SWSSF, and had the following divisions: Snubnose (3 inches or less), Medium bore Combat (4"), Medium bore Target (6"+), Medium bore Semi-Auto, Large bore Combat (40 cal and larger with 4"), Large bore Target (40 cal and larger with 6"+), and Large bore Semi-Auto! There could even be rimfire revolver and rimfire Semi-Auto divisions! Depending upon the number of entries, host clubs get a select number of pistols. Usually clubs keep 1 or 2 for fundraising, while the remainder are raffled off amongst the range officers that make the event possible!

This approach fulfills multiple objectives, but more so, it gets people out shooting safely!

Smith and Wesson, take this seriously and give it some thought!