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Old 11-29-2016, 10:00 AM
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Default SCSW 4 Corrections, comments, suggestions

Rick and I really appreciate the great response from forum members on Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Edition! We also appreciate the folks who have pointed out errors, typos, omissions, and new information.

If ya'll would be kind enough to post them in this thread (with page number), we'll make note of them and try to get them corrected in future printings. Also, your fellow forum members can check here to update their books.

Comments and suggestions are also welcome!

I've also left the serial number thread open, and if folks will continue to report the year of manufacture and 3 character alpha prefix of their serial number, we'll continue to build the s/n list.

Thanks! - Jim
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Old 12-05-2016, 10:05 PM
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Default errata

page # 48, 70, 73, 80, 81. more to follow. I want to do a thorough job
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Old 12-05-2016, 10:24 PM
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Thanks Jim. It's great that you have made this a collaborative effort. Sincere thanks for what you have done for the S&W community. I'll have some input for you soon.

Dave
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:39 AM
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Thanks! Please list specific errors found on the pages you list - I can "proof" my own stuff a dozen times and still read right over obvious mistakes.

This is a huge help, and much appreciated! - Jim
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:54 PM
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Many of these listed are from the use of an apostrophe to indicate a plural. Today's errata are a combinatio of that error, some spelling, some syntax. and some pure typos.
pages;
94
99
100
104
115
130
135
136
152
153.

Last edited by Lt JL; 12-06-2016 at 01:54 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:56 PM
Lt JL Lt JL is offline
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Next time, I'll be specific. Kind of like playing Pokemon.
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:12 AM
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Thanks for collecting our comments here, Jim! Hope you don’t mind, but I believe some updates are needed specifically for the Amazon Kindle version of the 4th edition. I have put together annotated screen shots that I can post here or share via PM. Please let me know what you prefer.
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt JL View Post
Many of these listed are from the use of an apostrophe to indicate a plural. Today's errata are a combinatio of that error, some spelling, some syntax. and some pure typos.
pages;
94
99
100
104
115
130
135
136
152
153.

You left the "n" off combination.

Charlie
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:17 AM
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Jim,

Page 388, the Model 6454 you have listed there has an error in the three digit prefix, it should of course be RSR not RST. And if you'd like I actually came across another 6454. The two I have are RSR0553 and RSR0555. And the 6451 you have pictured of mine on the preceding page is RSR0340 if you want to add that to the Model 6451 subsection as an observed gun.

And by the way, a huge thank you for the opportunity to have a couple pics off my pistols in your fine book.
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Old 12-07-2016, 07:43 AM
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Page 490 - still no reference to the 3Dxxxxx serial numbers. In a conversation with Roy a couple years back, he told me the 3D numbers were all used in 1978, so the list should say:
1978 2D80001-3D99999 (instead of ending with 2D99999)

Edit: Obviously I would suggest checking with Roy, in case the note I made in my 3d Edition after I asked him is incorrect.
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Old 12-11-2016, 10:27 AM
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Is anyone offering the hard cover and e-reader together as a package?
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Old 12-23-2016, 03:55 PM
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Default Three-Times One

Like the soul whose original intention was to drain the swamp but found the 'gators kinda distracting, yours truly came here to tell of his thinking so highly of SCSW4 that he'd buy an additional two . . . two to keep (one, immaculately so) and another to give (today, in fact) to his favorite LGS (um, that's three, total, for those still distracted by 'gators).



Not expected was finding a critique of No. 4 underway.

Having decades ago grasped Mr. Supica's point - an excellent copy editor being worth his or her weight in gold, albeit stated differently by he - his thought was well taken as, indeed, this reader last night happened to cross paths with an error of the type that can be seen five times and still be missed because, indeed, prima facie evidence exists of that very thing on Page 354, under "Model 439 . . .", as the applicable copy's last paragraph restated that which was found in closing the immediately preceding paragraph - even though they disagreed factually.

Believe you, me, there was once a copy editor with whom this author often tilted - and twice-as-often praised. She is greatly missed (a really nice contract with ESPN being the point of our separation . . . for her, silly, not me. Dammit).

Returning to SCSW4: Given a finally undertaken effort to catalog within our SWCA Database this owner's three generations of semi-automatic handguns, you'll be apprised ASAP should I find others, Mr. Supica.

Now, off to that LGS to not only give to others, but to myself as well . . . as a nicely engraved 686 awaits.

Later.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:23 PM
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Page 41, right column, line 16 references the "introduction of the .38 Single Action First Model (Baby Russian) in 1976". It should be 1876, not 1976.

Page 45, right column, line 27 states "From the beginning in 1952...". Should be 1852, not 1952.

Page 50, left column, 13th 13online from the bottom, you reference 2006 market conditions. As this book is copyright 2016, I believe you wish to reference current market conditions, not those from a decade ago.

Page 59, left column, line 7: Reference is made to " Merwin Hulbert". That form was known as Merwin & Hulbert. There is another reference to "Merwin Hulbert", page 83, right column, line 2; also page 63, 6th line from the bottom.

Page 71: Left column, lines 6, 14, & 15 utilize the words "their's", "it's", and "it's". In all three cases, the apostrophe should be removed to be grammatically correct.

Page 73, "Bibliography" section. Indentation format needs improvement, as it fails to clearly delineate 4 books and 1 private letter. Also "Publishing" is improperly spelled, right column, line 5 in "Bibliography" section.

Page 77, right column, line 16, you state that gutta percha cases "will bring $2000 to $6,000". I would change the 2000 to 2,000 to maintain consistency here.

Page 116, left column, 7th line from the bottom, refers to "A.S.A. Himmelwright". As this individual's full name was Abraham Lincoln Artman Himmelwright, the abbreviated version of his name should read, as follows: A.L.A. Himmelwright. Also, in the right column of this page, line 4, the reference to William F. Buffalo Bill Cody reads as I typed it. It probably should read as William F. "Buffalo Bill" Cody.

Page 130, 5th line from the bottom, left column, refers to "Hitlers niece". It should be stated, as follows: Hitler's niece.

Page 196: The last bulleted paragraph in the right hand column discusses conversions of the .455 Mark II Hand Ejector 2nd Model references this aforementioned model as being reported as easily converted to .45 Colt. No reference to this is made relative to the 1st Model (Triple Lock). This is confusing as it suggests that this is applicable to the 2nd Model only, which is not the case. Also, the wording of the 6th line from the bottom, right column, states the following: "It is reported that these are easily converted to .45 Colt..." This gives the impression that the authors are aware of anecdotal evidence that suggests a conversion from .455 Mark II to .45 Colt. However, experience suggests that these conversions are fairly common. At any given time, there is usually one available for sale somewhere and decent Triple Lock conversions generally sell in the $825 range + or - $25.

Page 408, right column, line 20, states the following: "It's also no unusual...". This line should read, as follows: It's also not unusual...

Page 409, left column, line 12, states the following: "...lead bullet in seated completely...". This line should read, as follows: lead bullet is seated completely.

Page 486, left column, references the cost of a factory letter being $30. This has not been the case for years. Also, the address for a factory letter still is given as the old PO Box 2208 address.

Page 488, serial number data for 1906 for .44 Hand Ejectors incorrectly spells the word expirimentals as "expermentials".

Last edited by mrcvs; 12-24-2016 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 12-24-2016, 07:22 PM
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I purchased the 4th Edition on iBooks the other day and was a bit disappointed with the formatting compared to the 3rd. The table of contents in the previous edition was rather detailed and had hot links to specific models and references. The 4th seems to be lacking that feature and is much more cumbersome to navigate.
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Old 12-26-2016, 10:58 AM
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Wowsers, I just had seen this book at Barnes and Noble. Going to get it with my gift card. I really like all the good info especially the information on the dash number upgrades or changes I guess you call them.
I have a model 19 and 617 and want to learn more, thanks for all your efforts ☺

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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Old 12-26-2016, 09:58 PM
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Default Missing Product Code, 4006TSW

This particular Model 4006TSW's info was entered into the S&WCA data base when I learned you are seeking missing product codes, Mr. Supica.

The product code on this .40-caliber S&W is 149456. For a handgun that went into and out of production as quickly, I was amazed at the sheer bulk of codes that rivals that of more established and popular handguns but nevertheless it is what it is.

An image of the end-panel plus shell-casing envelope's exterior information was included as one of the two pictures allowed specifically so that you could easily verify that such exists. (Hey, I'm a 65-y.o. journalist who's been kicking out news copy and commentary for just about a half-century. I understand the need for checking and take as fact no one's sole take on life's events).

Later.
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:12 AM
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Page #308 mentions "Alaska State Trooper Commemorative Mountain Gun 629-1 4" barrel, AST000. Approx 30 manufactured. Product code 103601".

This is actually a 629-3, AST0000, 15 manufactured, according to my letter. I found one other of these guns and the owner has the original box with label. The letter states these guns came with target triggers and hammers, but my gun and the other I found do not. See pics.

Also, page #310 lists "103601 4" Lew Horton Special 30 Manufactured. Alaska State Trooper Comm 1997". When I called Lew Horton they had no record of my gun. These were made in honor of an Alaska State Trooper Lieutenant who won a major shooting competition. S&W wanted to give him a gun, but he did not want what hey offered him. He wanted a Mountain Gun. S&W offered to make a small run of guns for troopers to buy. Here is my thread about his gun: 629-3, Alaska State Troopers, Letter Received, 15 made









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Old 12-27-2016, 08:04 PM
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Default Page 274 regarding Model 315 NightGuard

States that this model is fitted with a stainless steel flame shield just above the forcing cone. This is not true...my 315 did NOT have it and according to my phone call to S&W regarding this I was told that the Model 315 did NOT have this feature due to the fact it is 38 Special. Only the larger caliber (44 Special and Magnums) were fitted with this shield. Thank you...Roger
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:29 PM
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I was very pleased with skimming through the Fourth edition, not only were the requisite technical aspects of the guns present as usual, but there was some text commentary why the gun was made/what was going on in the market as well as "Collector's Tips" which makes it more interesting for history nerds. Also comparison charts as on page 334 were great additions. Thank you!
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:23 PM
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Default Error on p186

At the top of page 186 in the SCSW 4th, there is an engraved triple lock with a caption. The caption says that the gun is in the NRA museum collection and that it was engraved by Gustave Young. This is incorrect, since Gustave Young died in 1895 while triple locks did not debut until 1907/08.

I believe that the TL was engraved by Oscar Young, Gustave's son. The engraving is very similar to the engraving on the Oscar Young engraved guns that I have in my collection.
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:44 PM
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Page 233 right column shows a picture of what should be a 29 Silhouette model. Appears to be an 8 3/8" 29-2. Great book Jim.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:40 PM
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p. 171. Value for Pre-Model 12 shows NIB as $1,500 and excellent as $7,000. Wow! ! will throw away the box my Pre- Model 12 is in and increase the value by $5,500! Thanks , Jim & Rick !
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:36 PM
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I've been reluctant to comment here lest I confirm my well known but undeserved reputation as a nit-picker----not to mention encouraging any and all to pounce on me next time I make a boo-boo-------------------------but.

I was asked a question about one of my least favorite topics---screwdrivers. (Yes, I know----I'm supposed to refer to them otherwise; but that ain't going to happen----live with it!!) So here I am----obliged to educate this fellow about screwdrivers---and I don't know diddly about them. I figure the SCSW is going to have something to say----------somewhere. Sure enough! It's in the section about "Boxes (and the stuff that comes in them)". (Page 33) I thought the use of the word "stuff" was particularly appropriate---given the topic at hand.

The treatment of this stuff starts on page 55. We soon get down to the nitty-gritty---and start talking about screwdriver handles. The first revelation is the handles are "tapered". Okay, I can't say I ever noticed that; but no problem. The next revelation is some of them are long tapers and others are short tapers. Hmmmmmmmmm?

But then, when we get into what might be thought of as sixth generation screwdrivers (1961-1964)----AND the seventh generation (1964-1988), we step in it BIG TIME!! That which was "tapered" in the fifth and some earlier generations has now become "taped" in the sixth and seventh generations. I can pretty much guarantee a screwdriver with a "taped" handle is going to come apart on you---so beware of "taped" handles.They're hazardous to your health-----probably ought to have a warning label on them.

Apologies to all in need, but it'll happen again.

Ralph Tremaine

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Old 02-18-2017, 08:39 AM
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Please include a definition of "gas ring" in the glossary. There are many mentions of the gas ring moving from yoke to cylinder and vice versa, but I don't see an explanation of what a gas ring is. Was able to find out by surfing this forum.
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Old 02-25-2017, 12:06 PM
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Page 352, under Model 61, left side, 3 lines up:
reather = rather


Thanks for getting 4th edition out.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN2944 View Post
I purchased the 4th Edition on iBooks the other day and was a bit disappointed with the formatting compared to the 3rd. The table of contents in the previous edition was rather detailed and had hot links to specific models and references. The 4th seems to be lacking that feature and is much more cumbersome to navigate.
Sounds similar to problems in the Kindle version of the 4th edition. Jim has notified his publishers and they are looking into it. It's likely that any updates will be automatically available to all owners of these e-books.
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Old 03-30-2017, 04:11 PM
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FYI SCSW#4 is now available for free download to Kindle Unlimited members.
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Old 03-31-2017, 10:26 PM
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I do not know whether this has been pointed out before, but I just noticed a mistake that carried over from the 3rd to the 4th edition:

The caption to the photo collage of Victory Model markings on p. 166 reads in part "typical Brit military markings (including broad arrow)".

The part of the picture referenced, however, shows a complete set of post-war Australian re-work markings from the Lithgow Small Arms Factory; not a British mark among them.
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:36 PM
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Jim- I have a S&W pen flare kit, complete, unused. If you would like pics, PM me. I posted the pics in the "Rarity of the Smith and Wesson Flare Gun" thread if you would like to look at it there first.

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Old 04-13-2017, 11:34 AM
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S&W Mod 431PD (Lightweight 32 H&R Mag) shipped Apr 2016, #CYZ0287

S&W Mod 432PD (Centennial Lightweight 32 H&R) Shipped 2005, # CYY0171

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Old 04-22-2017, 02:37 AM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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Page 211, Model 14: K-38 Masterpiece

In commenting upon the single action version, you note "Internal deletion of parts allows single action only." You go on to mention the availability of a conversion kit. On the one hand, I'm wondering why a conversion kit would have been necessary to delete parts? On the other hand, I bought and installed such a conversion kit at the time (1960's). I have no recollection of what was in it---only that it was a simple parts swapping exercise---and it worked great. In the for what it's worth category, I have a hammer and trigger in my stash of stuff which I strongly suspect came from my (DA) K-38 of the time.

Additionally, back in the day, the single action version was referred to as as the "short action single action"---and the action (hammer fall) is decidedly shorter---a little over a tenth of an inch (20+%). You may want to make mention of such.

Ralph Tremaine

EDITED TO ADD: A Forum member ("Tired Gunsmith") notes the factory conversion kit contained a trigger, hammer, and rebound spring. Along the way, a cursory search uncovered photos of the SA hammer/other innards which absolutely confirms the SA's were not created via deletion of parts. It would seem one could certainly make a SA by deleting parts, but it would not be a "short action single action".

Last edited by rct269; 04-24-2017 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:18 AM
mrcvs mrcvs is offline
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A recent factory letter I received indicates that there is a range from serial number 27900 to 28000 of 100 units that were produced in either .32-44 or .38-44, relative to the New Model No 3. Your book, page 117, states this range is "believed" to be from 27942 to 28017, which totals 75 units. The letter is attached for your review. I am not sure which information is correct, but am pointing out the discrepancy.
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Old 05-05-2017, 02:07 PM
Bastogne71 Bastogne71 is offline
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Jim,

On page 286 the model 386XL Hunter, SKU #164298, is incorrectly described as an eight shot. It has a seven shot cylinder.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:34 PM
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Page 334
The third generation list Qty column was narrowed which resulted in the 1006 and 1076 quantities to become "####".

Page 384
The Super 9 information can be refreshed with information from this thread:

5906 “Super 9” Information
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:32 PM
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Default SCSW 4th Ed Model 67 Engineering Changes

On Page 271 under Model 67 Engineering Changes:

"Model 67-5 2002 Introduce Internal Key Lock system"

"Model 67-6 2004 New Two Piece Barrel design"

Since I purchased my one piece barrel Model 67-5 On March 11, 2017 with a factory ship date of November 17, 2016, it hardly seems likely the Engineering Change listed for the Model 67-6 in SCSW 4th Edition is correct. See attached photo of the box label of my Model 67-5.

Thank you,
[IMG][/IMG]
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Last edited by D Brown; 09-10-2017 at 01:38 AM. Reason: Replaced Images Held Hostage By PhotoRansom.
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Old 07-02-2017, 08:19 AM
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Last evening I was researching the British contract of Hand Ejectors produced in .455. There were three basic categories. This is nicely summarized by Hondo44 in numerous posts relative to the Triple Lock (although some were Hand Ejector Second Models, as well, as also discussed by Hondo44 in his excellent synopsis). A search of posts in the Hand Ejector 1896 to 1961 section will easily locate this excellent summary. This is definitely worthy of inclusion in future editions of your book.
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:01 AM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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Thanks for a great book and including some of our site names, I especially like the historical excerpts that bring the technical data to life.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:55 PM
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Page 243, right column:

"U.S. Marked: A small group...sold to U.S. Army...."

Actually, it was a Navy, not Army, contract.
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:00 PM
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Greetings Messrs Supica and Nahas,

Pg. 388, "Model 6592 RSR Transitional" . . . "fixed barrel bushing" should be "removable barrel bushing".

Also, same page, same model, "...rare..." should be "only one example exists: Serial No. RSR3322 last known to be owned by a dumb Forum member and SWSC Nos. 1-through-4 aficionado named DC Williams".

Okay. Maybe not. I mean, as to the second entry, above, specifically regarding rarity or scarcity or "Get outta here!" with respect to RSR3322, which does exist. So we know it exists, right, 'cause he's even got pictures of it in one of his SWF albums? Okay, okay. Definitely not as to the rarity thing. But, like, ya gotta try, right?

Still, RSR3322 has a removable barrel bushing; for sure.

Later.
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Old 07-31-2017, 04:30 PM
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For those who bought the Kindle edition will it be updated in some way as a result of the edits?
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:35 PM
VNK971 VNK971 is offline
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Great book! Page 490, D Serial Prefix, Models 10, 12, 13, 14, 45. Delete 14.
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:03 PM
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Default Done through here

DONE THROUGH HERE.

Thank you all for the incredibly helpful feedback! We are in the process of making MINOR corrections for a re-printing in the near future. Typos, etc., have been harvested through here.

We will not be adding additional information, or making changes that we would have to verify first, at this time. However, that type of information WILL be given careful consideration for inclusion if we ever do a new (5th) edition. I'm saving it, so please keep it coming!

Rick & I really appreciate your help on this! - Jim
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:11 PM
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Page 309 refers to the Mountain Backpacker as a 629-3

I believe it should be 629-5 with product code 103693

Also prefix AHL is not listed on page 491.My 3" 66-2 has an AHL serial prefix as part of a 3" order shipped to Ashland Shooters Supply
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  #44  
Old 09-08-2017, 12:09 PM
Monty05 Monty05 is offline
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Default 386 XL Hunter

Page 286 "8-shot" should be "7-shot".
Thanks for a great reference. Cheers. Roger
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:26 PM
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Any thoughts on SCSW5 being in a binder so page supplements with corrected or added information can replace pages with errors between editions?

Not hard to do updating and corrections with a digital online version but a hardcover it's near impossible
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:22 PM
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Default 4th Es., page 165

Jim, pretty minor error, but seeing how I'm going to offer it for sale soon, figured I'd say something. 75 guns for Kankakee Ordnance Works were shipped in 1941, not 1951.
Regards,
jt
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:15 AM
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I like this book. Thanks for all the info.
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