Old Guy needs a little help with M-27 recoil reduction!

[SgtSam]

I was out shooting this past Saturday with my son, and took my M27-2 along. It was a joy to shoot with .38spl loads. However, when I put some stout .357s in it, it began to hurt.

Now, I didn't used to have this problem, but as my arthritis has gotten worse over the years, I sold off all of my really big boomers, and .357 is the heaviest thing I still have, unless you count .45Colt in there. But, I'm beginning to feel the recoil a lot more now with the .357 than I care to. Took a lot of the fun out of it, and I only shot 18 rounds of the stuff Saturday.

I'm looking to change out the stock target stocks that came on the M27 for something that will cut the pain (no, they're not for sale). I've read about the Packmeyer Decelerators, but a few places said they were junk. I don't want the Hogues as they leave the backstrap open on the Smiths. Not sure about custom wood stocks as the original wood S&Ws are part of the problem.

Any help that any of you can provide me would be "sorely" (pun intended ) appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[murphydog]

I think you have a pretty close answer already, try rubber stocks with a covered backstrap. The Decelerators make the trigger reach longer but other than that I never had any problem with them.

 

[Old cop]

I too am older w/the same problem. The Pachs that cover the backstrap (I have big hands) to the trick.

 

[WR Moore]

This may not be the direction you had in mind, but you didn't mention exactly which "stout" .357 loads you were using. If you handload, you have additional options.

Long ago, I discovered that 200 gr slugs in .357 (used the old Super Police bullet), were much less abusive (200 gr @ 900 fps). The muzzle rise was greater, but the jolt to the hand much less than factory loads.

More recently, I ran up a bunch of 125 gr JHPs at around 1250 fps (clocked) and found them much easier on both weapon and self.

 

[wbraswell]

I've always used Pachmeyer compact grips on my M29s, and liked the result. I'd think the .357 would benefit also. I kind of think that ammo that is comfortable to shoot and the word "Magnum" don't really go together, unless it's a real small caliber.

 

[gdogs]

I've never cared for the looks of the Pachmayr Presentation grip with the covered backstrap. That said, there is no question that my Dad's 29 that wears a pair is more comfortable to shoot than any S&W .44 that I own. They really make a big difference.

 

[RUT]

You may want to just stick to .38 specials.

 

[Fishslayer]

I would go ahead & give the Pachs a try. Ya never know. One man's junk, etc.

FWIW I never run a bazillion of the full house Big Dogs in a session either. Just enough to get my recoil fix & then play with the .38.

".38s for practice, .357s for business."

 

[A10]

+1 for the Pach's . They're ugly but they work!

 

[SgtSam]

Thanks Guys! This has been some real help.

I've never used the Pachmeyers before, so when I saw some "junk" comments, I was a little leary. But, I just might have to get some. Would you recommend the ones with the finger grooves, or the presentation models without?

Also, are there any smooth wood grips that salve the recoil. I've heard that some do, but, frankly, it just doesn't seem logical to me.

As for what .357 load I was using, it was the Remington 158gr JHP, green box. They were quite painful by the time I got to the third cylinder load. That's when I quit and went back to .38spl.

Boy, thirty years ago I thoroughly enjoyed putting heavy loads through all of my big guns, and a few of my friend's. It sucks to get old!

Thanks again!

 

[senecaap]

When I've had them, I always got along fine with the Presentation models. By the way the "junk" comments are about how they look (they are uglier than wood, but this is shooting not a Paris runway), Pachmayr is top notch in construction and in dampening recoil, I much prefer them to Hogue.
I would also either stick to .38s or go with the heavier bullet .357 loads for general shooting. Keep the screamers loaded for carry and the like. I've found my tolerance for sub 158 grain bullets has dropped to 0 in the .357.

 

[TAROMAN]

I tried the Decelerators on my Model 29. For my hand, at least, they seemed to be too narrow. Everybody's hands are fifferent. That's why I have a box full of "tried & not liked" stocks.

 

[bgrafsr]

I use Herrett's Jordan Trooper stocks on my big magnums, and also have a pair that I used on my Model 66 duty gun for years, until we switched to the Sig 226. The Troopers are custom made to your hand, are a tad expensive, but they really work for helping with recoil.

 

[357 shooter]

Even with the backstrap exposed the rubber Hogues have always been very comfortable to shoot with magnum revolvers. My 6 1/2" 629 has them and I shoot 240 grain H110 loads with no discomfort.

My used 8 3/8" Model 27 I picked up last year had them , again very comfortable but I just had to install wood grips on this fine blued revolver! I've not fired any of the stout 357 loads through it since installing the wood grips.

 

[WR Moore]

Ahrends makes a "retro" smooth stock set that's supposed to be an improved version of the factory smooth stocks. I just bought factory stocks and reshaped them to fit my hand. They helped quite a bit on my 29. They did do good work with the 125 gr factory flamethrowers.

I've never really been a fan of the rubber stocks, even when they were issue on our 681's. I especially didn't like having the reach to the trigger lengthened by the rubber backstrap.

 

[scooter123]

If you have a round butt grip frame another option is the monogrip for the 500 Magnum. Fit may not be perfect but it should be "serviceable". I have this grip on my 4 innch model 620 and it changed shooting 357 Magnums from downright painful to enjoyable in an envigorating sort of way.

Note, the 500 monogrip is only available from the S&W site and it was designed specifically for the K, L, and X frames with round butt grip frames. At one point S&W was pretty specific this grip would NOT fit a round butt N frame but recently they have added the N frame to the compatable list. Either they tweaked the internal contour a bit or decided that the fit wasn't "that bad". Basically, it could be a 50 dollar gamble.

I also have the Pachmayr Decelerator mounted on my 610-3. IMO the Pachmayrs are a bit softer rubber than the Hogues, which for me presents a minor issue with consistent recoil management. In addition the mounting screw is right at the point where it could "nudge" the mainspring during the trigger stroke if I back off the strain screw anymore. At some point I'll order another 500 monogrip and see how it fits up on the 610. Based on a few reports I've seen some fit well and others leave a bit of a gap at the top along the backstrap.

Fortunately my hands are large enough that for me a covered backstrap is an asset. If these grips are a bit too large and cause trigger reach issues, you may want to take a look at the Pachmayr Gripper Pro. While it has an exposed backstrap they are a bit wider than the standard factory profile and I've found this grip to be perfect on a square butt K frame.

BTW, I have a bit of arthrytis in the base of the thumb on both hands in addition to mild tunnel carpal, so I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. It's a price we pay for a lifetime of working with our hands.

Point is that I've found that the solution is to spend the time and bit of money that solves the problem for you. It may not be the same as my solution but there are so many options available I believe that you can find a grip that works well for you.

 

[stevieboy]

Sam, I've experienced the identical problem firing my 27 that you've experienced. The stock target grips -- nice as they are -- simply tore my shooting hand to pieces firing magnum rounds. I still have a callus at the base of my right (shooting hand) thumb to attest to my experience.

I swallowed my pride after a couple of brutal sessions and put Pachmayr Decellerators on the 27. First off, they are ugly as hell. No getting around it, they make a beautiful handgun look pretty unattractive. But, they allowed me to shoot pain free and thus, function trumps form.

The advantage of these grips is that the rubber completely covers the backstrap of the gun. That eliminates the problem of the metal grip frame being shoved back into your shooting hand. The extra "reach" created by this bit of rubber padding is more than compensated for by the fact that the grips have a very thin profile.

I prefer the finger grooved Decellerators to the Presentation Grips precisely because they are thinner and thus, do not fill up the hand too much. After a few great range sessions with these grips I learned to forget about how ugly they are.

I use my 27 regularly, it's not a safe queen and, in fact, I carry it occasionally. For that reason I want a gun that's perfectly functional. The Pachs do the trick for me.

 

[Murdock]

I put Pachmayr Grippers on my heavily-loaded M24 (Keith loads) when I was shooting field pistol silhouette. The factory targets were quite uncomfortable, which was why I went to the Grippers.

Even though the Grippers covered the back strap, they were too narrow at the top and really thumped the web space of my thumb.

The best I've used for comfort have been the cheap-looking, hollow plastic Pachmayr Jordan Troopers. They soak up recoil and even in my average-sized hands were not too big to handle well. The Herretts in wood are the same thing only pretty, and quite literally 10 times the price of a used set of Pachmayr plastic Troopers.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Pachmayr Presentation, most likely Small (SN-S). SN-S grips are no longer made, but still around.

 

[David LaPell]

I would go with a different set of wooden stocks, as some of the factory stuff is awful. Companies like Ahrends make very nice finger groove wooden grips that are only about $60 or so and come in so many different types of woods available. I know it doesn't make sense, but one of the reasons I like Grashorn's Gunworks stag grips is because for some reason they help with recoil. I had a pair on my Model 29 and I can't tell you why they really allowed the gun to roll more. I have a set on my 27-2 and even with heavy loads the gun just rolls right in the hand.