Post WW1 Allied Games/ Paris 38 Target question

[2152hq]

Regarding the H/E Target 38 revolvers used in that event (I think I have the name correct),,anyone know if there a specific ser# range they were taken from? Or was it completely random selection.

Were the revolvers shipped to the US Gov't (is that what a factory letter will show?) of did they go to individual names & addresses.

I just picked up a 38 Target. I got it at a good price as it was listed as 'possibly refinished' due to no frame markings.
Didn't look it to me. I thought some of the early K-frames were void of frame markings other than ser#.
This one is in the 2911xx range.


Might be worth a letter,,maybe?

I'll post a pic or two as soon as the camera dry cell comes back to life.

Pics added....not the best,,but gives you an idea of the condition. The reddish look to the finish
in a couple of the pics is the reflection off my shirt. Nice deep blue finish.
$350 for this guy.

 

[Hondo44]

I don't have any shipping dates for you but I can place it in the 1917 to early 1922 era. The "Made In USA" wasn't stamped until mid-1922. And in that same general period logos were not stamped on S&Ws following the war until c. 1920. If it has original stocks and they have medallions, it's pre c. 1920.

 

[2152hq]

Thanks for that info. Stuff I didn't know.
The grips are gold medallion. I believe they are the originals though on first examination I can't read a number inside (pencil marked ser# at that point I assume)

They fit perfectly all around the frame and the wear is correct for the overall condition of the gun.

I'm not much of a collector,,more of an accumulator & shooter. But I thought if it had a chance of being one of the revolvers used, I'd send off for a letter.

It'll still make a nice shooter though..

 

[rct269]

It would appear you have stumbled upon a rather obscure/rare rear sight. It is known as the "large screw spring up" version. It differs from those before and after by virtue of the fact the tang has been bent, and then tempered (as a spring)----whereas those before and after are flat. The sight on this gun is allowed to rise by loosening a cap screw threaded into the frame-----whereas those before and after are forced to rise by what I will call a "jack-screw" of one sort or another. It fell from favor due to difficulties encountered in the tempering process---whereby some (of the "springs") were too weak, others too strong, and some just right. They came into being in 1911 and were gone by 1923 (both dates approximate). They are seldom seen simply because target versions of this series are few and far between during this period.

Ralph Tremaine

Continuing---after a brief trip to "The Library": This sight is found on both the .38 Special and the .32/20 series of K frames. The sight has appeared on .38's between numbers 195504 and 379988, and on 32/20's between 76613 and 95573. This data is from Jinks as of June, 2002. I made a follow-up inquiry almost a year ago, and received no response. I took that to mean he didn't know any more now than he did then.

 

[DWalt]

There are several other recent postings in this forum regarding the 1919 Allied Games in Paris, in the event you were unaware of their existence. But they will probably not address your questions completely.

 

[red9]

Here is the copy of a letter that I posted on another thread. Yours is in the range. Does yours have a lanyard hole? I am under the impression that all in that order did come with lanyard loops.

Bob

 

[2152hq]

Thanks for all the great information,,the grips, markings, the rear sight, the factory letter info. I appreciate it very much.

No lanyard hole on this one and the ser# stamped squarely in the center.

Seems as tight as new but has clearly been shot.
It will accompany me to the range with some appropriate lightly loaded ammo in the next week or so.

 

[jmace57]

The serial number on mine is close to yours (291046) and is one from the Inter-Allied Games. I mailed off for a factory letter yesterday. My understanding though was that there were something like 30 pistols ordered - and 15 used in the competition. Another forum member has one in better shape, identical except for the engraving that is 12 numbers different in serial number.

 

[Jebus35745]

Nice pre-war target. Ralph, how could you tell the rear sight is different? It looks like a regular pre-was sight to me. Larry

 

[Hondo44]

Ralph said it's known as the "large screw..." The elevation screw is clearly larger than my pre war sight screws.

 

[rct269]

How could I tell rear sight is different?

Loooooooooooong story---severely shortened: I stumbled across this sight in 1999. Nobody knew anything about it. I was told Bob Neal had written a sight article about twenty years earlier-----the do all, end all, everything about S&W target sights------beginning to end. (!!!!) Neal never heard of this sight---thought it was a one-off by a gunsmith. I half way thought the same thing. I spent the next three years looking for another one--------found it! Found two more actually. It was for real----and still nobody knew anything about it----except Jinks. Jinks knew only what he had learned by observation over the years. He knew there was no mention of the sight in the written records (Engineering Change Book)----said only the things the Foreman thought were important were in the book. You and I might tend to disagree with the Foreman----and he might have tended to fire both of us for not keeping our eye on the ball------which was to make guns and convert them into cash. Clearly the man had no soul!!

How could I tell the rear sight is different? I lived for nothing other than finding more than one of these sights for three years! I can spot one clear across a (very large) room. Everybody thought I was nuts! They were probably right!!

RT

 

[Jebus35745]

Thanks Jim and Ralph, Larry

 

[Lee Jones]

Close up please!!!!

Give us a close shot of the side plate, or just the text.
Thanx.

Lee Jones(Celtgun)

 

[jmace57]

I wasn't sure if the request for the sideplate was to me, so here it is. The only real rust on the gun is on this sideplate, where they engraved through the bluing. The full text is:

Presented by Dr. C.C. Park
Santa Barbara, Cal
To
A W Long
1st Lt 18 F.A.
US Pistol Team
Inter Allied Matches
France, 1919


(sorry for my crappy camera/photography skills)

 

[Hondo44]

jmace,

WD-40 and a toothbrush should get the remainder of the red rust off the sideplate and out of the letters.