Wadcutters were developed for target revolvers with LONG barrels

[Squib_Load]

The VERY low WC velocities we see today are not the velocities WCs got in target revolvers. Back in early 1970s I had a 38 Spl with an 8⅜" bbl. That was the target length.

Now that chronos are common I have a better idea what the velocities were with those long barrels back then. They were lower, but not anemic.

Have the WC powder charges changed since then?

 

[Dave Lively]

Wadcutters haven't changed, the guns people shoot them in has.

It used to be wadcutters were both designed and used for target shooting. These days they are often used in lightweight snubbies due to the low recoil and precision target shooting with a revolver is a thing of the past for most people.

I often hear that modern ammo is loaded lighter because ammo makers worry about liability but think the real reason rated velocities are lower is affordable chronographs and YouTube make it hard to get away with the inflated velocity numbers that were common in the past.

Even if ammo makers are loading ammo lighter why would they reduce the powder charge in wadcutters? They were always loaded lightly.

I don't shoot competively but really like shooting wadcutters through my 686. Makes me feel like a marksman for a change.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

The VERY low WC velocities we see today are not the velocities WCs got in target revolvers. Back in early 1970s I had a 38 Spl with an 8⅜" bbl. That was the target length.

For my Police Department I shot on PPC team. I started with my duty revolver a six inch 1966 S&W Model 14. When I got to the "A" Team I bought the first of several PPC revolvers. All were six inchers, and 2.7 grains of Bullseye did the trick out to 50 yards.

 

[rwsmith]

Well, I TRY to shoot bullseye target, but my longest pistol barrel is 6" and the next down are 4" and they get shorter from there. I probably do a tad better witth 2.8 gr. Bulleye powder and HB wadcutters than any other load, but my pistol skills are merely adequate for SD and fun at the range. Give me a carbine, though and I'll shine much brighter.

 

[Rick H.]

In my area back in the day an 8" barrel on a pistol meant that it was a pistol used for hunting or silhouette shooting. I tried a couple of S&W +8" barrels many years ago thinking they may help my scores, but alas they did not. My steadiness with a barrel over 6" long evaporated quickly. I was okay for a cylinder full, but that was about it. Forget a barrel over 6" long for any type of action shooting. There were some very nice PPC pistols made back in the 70's, but I could never afford them being a brand new cop with a family. Back then store bought .38 cal. W/C ammunition was the rule of the day for serious match shooting with reloads being relegated to practice. Things have come a long way since that time and I almost never shoot a revolver now, only semi-autos. Easier for me to shoot well and much easier to clean.

Of course back in the 70's and 80's law enforcement agencies were hand picking their top shooters to partake in regional pistol competitions for bragging rights. We even had a trophy cabinet in our front entryway to our district HQ where all the shooting awards were displayed from our team members. I stopped at HQ one morning and went in the public entrance only to discover all the awards had been tossed in the dumpster on orders from our main state headquarters. So in one simple directive all the efforts of many people past and present were done away with so we didn't appear overly aggressive to the public. Story has it someone came into our district HQ and saw the shooting trophies and filed a complaint with our state headquarters. The result was swift and sure. That was also about the same time when we could no longer obtain a box of practice ammo each month at no cost to us. The "special" revolvers issued to the pistol team members were also recalled and eventually sold off. Nothing good ever happens that fast! All very sad at the time.

Rick H.

 

[Reloader Fred]

Back in the 1970's, I shot on our department pistol team in PPC matches pretty much every weekend during the season, plus about 1,000 rounds per month in practice. My PPC gun was a 6" S&W Model 14, with a Bomar rib installed, that I still have. From a Ransom Rest, it would put 10 rounds of Remington HB wadcutter ammunition into a 1 7/8" group consistently, using all 6 chambers, at 50 yards. We loaded all our practice and match ammunition using a local supplier's HB WC bullets and 2.7 gr. of Bullseye, which came very near the same accuracy as the Remington factory ammunition. I never shot a perfect 600 score, but I shot a lot of 598's and one 599 before I promoted to Sergeant and was transferred to the far reaches of the county and had to leave the team.

Precision shooting at 50 yards isn't as popular as it once was, which is a shame. I think a lot of the younger shooters believe a pistol bullet falls to the ground after 7 yards, since they never shoot their handguns at any longer distances..........

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[flyer338]

Wadcutters on top of 2.7 grains of bullseye probably reach peak velocity in a 4" barrel. The advantage of a longer barrel is not increased velocity or increased accuracy; it is a longer sight radius.

 

[Squib_Load]

Wadcutters on top of 2.7 grains of bullseye probably reach peak velocity in a 4" barrel. The advantage of a longer barrel is not increased velocity or increased accuracy; it is a longer sight radius.

How many grains of powder were used in the commercial loads? Which powder? Have the commercial loads been chrono'd in 4" and 8" barrels? I don't have an 8" 38 Spl anymore, otherwise I'd chrono them myself.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

How many grains of powder were used in the commercial loads? Which powder?

What you are asking is, “what is a Factory Duplication Load?”

For the .38 Special 148 grain Match Wadcutter. Federal & Remington was 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Winchester was 3 grains of W231.

Regarding accuracy the .38 Special 148 grain Match Wadcutter is the best test for a two, 2 1/2, three, four, five, six or 8 3/8 inch revolvers. JMHO

 

[Squib_Load]

What you are asking is, “what is a Factory Duplication Load?”

NO. I did not ask for that. I didn't ask for a duplicate.