.22 caliber revolver for self defense

amunition is everything with a .22. We had two shootings in a week, one with a .22 and the other a .22 magnum. Both at pointblank range. Neither penatrated the skull. Both were with lead softpoint ammo. Iv'e seen several shootings with .22 hollowpoints that were fatal, but none of them quickly.

I've investigated more homocides with a .22lr pistol than any other caliber of weapon. Some the folks were DRT, some they died at the scene after telling me who shot them and some lingered for a day or two. I worked one where the Perpress said that John Eddie dropped to the floor and did not quiver after she shot him with a Ruger Mk II, the round entering just under his nose, dead center of his upper lip. I was impressed.

Rule 303

I, too, have had a few people on the autopsy table who died of 22 wounds. Sometimes, especially with the "standard velocity" LRNes, the bullets will travel in some interesting paths. Sometimes this is attributed to bouncing around inside the body, and sometimes (and this is the opinion I agree with) the fluid dynamics of the internals of the human body combined with a higher velocity elongated RN projectile made interesting, sometimes curvy, paths through the body. They certainly can be fatal; I can attest.

Also, don't forget that John Hinckley incapacitated four people with a 6-shot 22 l.r. revolver. (Of course, shooting exploding bullets, but it's also my understanding that most of them didn't explode and acted like LRNes anyway...)

The bottom line is, and Rule 303 is really getting to the heart of the matter, that the 22 L.R. will kill, but it's very inconsistent on speed (and sometimes the effectiveness) of the demise. If you want a real defensive gun, you should get something bigger, but the 22 L.R. will work better than a poke with a stick.
 
I think in a roundabout way everyone is trying to say that.....

What are you gaining by carrying a 22?

And what are you losing?

It's a game of percentages.

How much of a chance are you willing to take I guess is the real question.
 
YES ... but remember, shot placement is everything. You have to be either skilled enough for a double-tap head shot while under the influence of adrenalin or concentrate on the pelvic area. Forget about center-mass, chest shots ... to many bones.
I'd feel a whole lot better if you armed yourself with at least a .32 magnum right up to a .45 and anywhere in between. Just my two cents.
Monte
 
On my chrony, i'm getting 1425 fps with a Mk 2 using Aquila hyper vel (1400 with the cci stinger) and I even get 950 fps out of and old RG snubbie that I keep in my vehicle as a BUG. I actually know what its like to get shot (accident) with a 22 lr.

It HURTS BAD AND IT BURNS BAD!! and if you get hit just right (like I did) you will see a gush of blood every heart beat...you will go into shock fast. I ccw a 9mm or sometimes a 380 but if it wasn't so big, the 6 7/8 barrel Mk 2 would go with me a lot of places.
 
While a . 22 would not be my first second or third choice for CCW...I probably went to more murders where a .22 was used more than any other caliber....especially in the day of the SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIAL
 
My Dad lived all but the last few years of his life with nothing except a K22. For some reason, he bought a Browning BDA .45 in his later years. He was never much of shot with the BDA but it never worried me because he still had the K22. A couple good hits with the K22 would beat the heck out of miss with the .45. ;)

I would prefer a good quality .22 to a .25 - probably .32 auto, too.
 
My thoughts on a carry gun are these...

Pick one or two cheap, manageable, and common rounds.

Find a reliable/durable gun that encourages alot of shooting.

Choose one that you will carry 24/7.

Practice, practice, practice.

9mm and .22 fit this bill nicely for me.

I'm considering a J frame .22 as a BUG

I carry a Glock 26.
 
The only good thing about a .22 is that you can practice a lot for cheap and shot placement is all that counts. IIRC, Jeff Cooper said something to the effect that a .22 in the region of an eye socket beats a miss or marginal hit with a .380 any day.

Anything you get you need to practice. practice, practice.
 
IIRC, Mr. Cooper also said, when asked about the .25 ACP as a defensive round, which is in the same league as the .22LR, that he would rather have a stout cane.
 
Yeah, the good colonel really hated the .25 ACP! I can't post his exact quote (Forum copyright rule) but he wrote about the subject in "Guns and Ammo". Cooper had no love for any small caliber handgun (and he considered the .380 to be in that category) but believed the .22 offered accuracy, no recoil to speak of, cheap ammunition for lots of practice, (3 things a small .380 didn't offer)and that it would penetrate a human skull not always but most of the time.

I for one believe he was right. I'd rather fight against someone armed with a .380 that they may run 50-100 rds through a year that someone with say an old Ruger .22 auto that they shoot 1500-2000 rds a year with.
 
While I might put 2 shots in each of a BG's eye's with my Ruger 22/45 (w. red-dot sights), I'd much rather have my 629 Classic with 240 gr. Keith's loaded at 1,000 fps. to absolutely keep him down.
 
While I would not call a 22LR or a 25 ACP a "stopper", I have seen several people killed with both of them.

Many times with only one shot.
 
While I would not call a 22LR or a 25 ACP a "stopper", I have seen several people killed with both of them.

Many times with only one shot.

I've seen people killed from cancer. They both take about as long......
 
I ran into a surgeon from South Africa while in Viet Nam. He told me a story which impressed me (and I'm pretty hard to impress).
It seems that an older lady lived on a farm in Kenya during the Mau-Mau days. There were heavy-duty weapons around the place but she preferred her .22lr revolver. She practiced every day until she could shoot the (insert anatomical term) off a Tse-Tse fly.
One day, while her husband and brother were away, the farm was attacked. She was able to kill ten machete-wielding thugs with multiple shots to the head from her .22.
I suppose that proves that .22's can kill, but also that steady nerves and lots of practice are the answer to self defense.
Buzz (cockerpoodle)
 
This comes up every once in a while just about everywhere.

To use a 22 LR for defense against human-sized predators would require a magic bullet to be reliable. If you have to use a 22, try to use a HV lead round nose or copper washed bullet modified to have a partially flattened and cupped tip.
DSC04562.jpg

I can testify from experience that the Accurizer, which was used to modify the bullet seen above, works very well at improving accuracy but they may not feed reliably in some autoloaders. The improved terminal effect on small game is impressive. I've never tried it on a human being and never will unless the only alternative is harse language.
 
I havent read all the threads, but years ago I worked with a friend that was retired from the indiapolis pd as a homicide lt. He said the .22 was a nasty cartridge to get hit with as they usualy rickoshayed from rib to rib every direction. On the other hand he said his partner got hit with a .22 and they took him to the hospital and they ended up putting just a band aid on the entrance and exit wounds and sent him home as the bullet never hit a bone and no damage was done!
 
A fair number of 317s were sold as BUGs/carry guns when they first came out. I had one. Bought it used and unfired for all of 250 dollars. Hard trigger pull, but that came with better reliability for iffy rimfire ignition. (Rimfire ammo isn't as reliable as centerfire in terms of a means of priming and QC on .22LR isn't always the best.) Shot mine quite a bit, used it as an understudy to a 337. Eight rounds of .22LR... Eh, it'd do if someone was recoil sensitive and needed a light gun.

Otherwise I'd opt for a 30/31 or 432 loaded with .32 SW Long. Not very noisy, centerfire, low recoil, and pokes a nicer hole.
 
Just the other day there was an episode of the TV show "The Best Defense" broadcast in which drills were described and demonstrated using .22LR in a self-defense role. They advocated extensive practice and focusing on rapid multiple head-shots, coupled with the use of moving targets to simulate head-bobs and ducks of an assailant. They were using a .22 semi-auto, but it seems to me that the same principles would hold true for a .22 revolver. As others have said, I'd not choose the .22 as a primary SD gun, but in a pinch I'd rather have one than nothing by far, and I suspect that in the hands of a well-trained shooter using proper technique it could be very effective.
 
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