AKAOV1MAN-

I don't remember who said it but: "Bullet placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin

I know that our man in New Mexico, Erich, said that, but he may have been quoting someone. I think he's a prosecutor, and has studied a number of shootings.

The bullet must get deep inside and penetrate vital organs or the brain.

For the record, and not because I am recommending it when something better is at hand, the two men I know who have actually shot some people with it and seen reports from others in the field, used 9mm FMJ. One shot nine men with that round, and all dropped. He wasn't always able to stick around and be sure they died, although one terrorist hit in about the solar plexus did, scrabbling around horribly on the floor of a house in Baghdad. He was dead within a minute, despite a medic trying to help, and was incapacitated for that time.

Guns used by these men were a Beretta M-9, a Browning Hi-Power, and a P-38. The guy with the P-38 was also a police official who saw many "after action" reports in what was then Rhodesia. He told me that 9mm usually worked okay, if the hit was a good one. He was an IPSC champion and liked the Colt .45 auto, but was issued the P-38/P-1 and got free ammo for it, when .45 ammo was in iffy supply, due to UN sanctions.

For the record, my 9mm is loaded with Federal 124 grain HST's.

T-Star