Well i have tried the hole in the patch several times and i think that looking through my bifocals and seeing the sights clearly and seeing the target a little fuzzy is the best way for me. But is was fun trying something out. The punch i bought wasn't a waste, i have lost quite a bit of weight and i will be putting some new notches in my belts. thank you for all the comments Bye Doug

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CZ 75b
Taurus PT-709