Buff you and I guess think alike, I have been looking at Bowens custom gun site for a while now, and I think it is the only way to get what I want, I think S&W are making a bad mistake not taking care of there loyal customers, been buying there guns for 19 years now! Anothe fellow who looks to do good work is Clements Custom Guns, looks like I have a couple phone call to make this week! ANd Buff a 5" N frame would make a perfect carry gun, unfortunately we here in Canada have no rights to anything, so you make sure they never take your rights away down south in the good old USA, cheers Dale from Canada!