The 617 will not be sent back by anyone at the LGS, buyer beware. Right beside it was a 17-3 in 97% condition, no extras for $1,200. I already have one, I just wanted the little lady to have her own. What I really should have said in my post was I appreciate the wealth of information I get from this forum. Luckily the 3 new j frames I bought in the early 2000’s, a 60, 649, and a 640 did not have any manufacturing problems. I hope this changes soon, model 18 are scarce around here or unrealistically priced.