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Big Shrek · 08-23-2014, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Nash

Birds Away”:

You are quite correct in your belief that there is a lot of misinformation about the 3rd Generation-based “Value Line” Smith & Wesson pistols. With all due respect to others who have contributed to this and other threads on this site (such as this also-915/908-related one: Yes, this is another 915 thread, which includes a comment by me somewhere within it), there were no “first” (or “first generation”) or “second value line” guns as indicated in several places within your thread. The concepts and approaches as to what was made at different times starting (separately) in the early and mid 1990’s were different as were the terms used to describe them and the guns themselves.

As usual, I am loathe to include images of, and quotes from, things that I don’t have the rights to or that are not in the public domain (something that was also a focus of attention of the managers of this site a while back), but this post in still another thread (I assume to be OK in that regard or it would have been removed by now) shows catalog pages from what are purported to be the 1993, 1994 and 1996 S&W Catalogs, which apppear to bear out what I have said elsewhere This post was originally held back pending the..., “ar33c9” You might want to take a look at a..., and The 915 only enjoyed 2 years of production,...) even though I have not had the opportunity to go back through my hard files and verify things (date-wise) for myself: From the 1993 S&W catalog - ...

I’ll try not to rehash everything that is included in my earlier posts in those other threads but in direct reference to your questions (“I own a 457 and am impatiently awaiting arrival of my 411. I am interested in finding a 908 but am getting a little confused. If my understanding is correct the first "value line" models to come out were the 915, 411 and 457. As I understand it these were only slightly modified from the original 3rd gens that they represent. Then, later, S&W came out with other "value" models which had more significant modifications from the 3rd gen originals. These were the 909, 910 and 410. If all of this is true, where does the 908 fit in?”), I would say this:

1) The original gun in the first attempt to take some of the cost out of the base line, 3rd Gen, 9mm “Service” pistols, was the 915. It was not called a Value Line gun. The “Value Line” (in name, concept or multiple models) did not exist at the time of its introduction. The “changes” from the standard 5904 type pistol upon which it was based were largely cosmetic; except for the very noticeable lack of the Novak Rear Sight.

2) The 915 was ultimately followed up by the 411, where the same “ideas” as seen in the 915 were applied to a 40caliber gun (the 4004). It too was not a “Value Line” gun for that name, product line or breadth of alterations had not yet become a part of the S&W business plan.

3) When the “Value Line” was introduced, it took the cost savings allowed by further machining changes and replacement parts to a much greater degree but along with that was a move to toward a different and less traditional S&W pistol appearance (seen primarily in a slide that was no longer contoured as had been the case since the 1950’s but in some ways had moved closer to the square shouldered appearance of some of their then-current competition).

4) The “Value Line” was also just that: a “line” in that instead of one pistol that led (only) to a second (I will disregard similar attempts to take the costs out of certain models in the Revolver side of the house, which are clearly visible in that catalog page link I have provided here for they outside the scope of this discussion), the “Value Line” not only offered three calibers upfront (9mm, 40S&W, and .45ACP) but also several different sizing formats as well.

5) These sizes or formats included the 910 (a double column, full size, service-type 9mm – something akin to a 5904), the 410 (a double column, full size, service-type 40S&W – something akin to a 4004), the 909 (a single column, full size, service-type 9mm – something akin to a 3904), the 908 (a single column, compact, 9mm –something akin to a 3914) and the 457 (a single column, compact, .45ACP – something akin to a 4513; except for color in the early guns).

I hope this helps you and I hope that everyone can see that I am not attempting to be rude or demeaning to those who have posted incorrect things about these guns (especially the 411 and 915) here and elsewhere but as we all know, the Internet can sometimes be very much like those games that kids play where something gets repeated enough times and people begin to accept it as correct (whether it is or not) or where something that starts at one end of a line is substantially transformed into something else by the time it reaches the other side.

I was part of the 915 program and while I fully acknowledge that over time some things can be “misremembered”, what I am telling you here is at least partially supported by those catalog pages I mentioned above and much of what I have read in various threads about these guns is just plain “wrong” but is being related as “right” by people who just weren’t there at the time but who I am sure honestly believe it to be true. I just figured that it was time to try and set the record straight.

I hope that this information is what you were looking for.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to read a black font on a grey background???
I am removing color so all the other old farts like me...can read this

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