I have used them to shoot into animals. My penetration results did not meet FBI specs. My loads were only going about 775-800 fps. That could have very well been some of my problem. I have loaded HBWCs in the correct direction, to 158 OAL specs with a 000 buckshot in the hollow end. This will give you about 200 grains and a hit on target on the average on a 3 inch spread at 10 yards. Probably again not the FBI required penetration. I have, do and will carry either load in my Js.