Diesel Kilgore , People have bad mouthed the Speer #8 for yrs and yrs . Quite frankly most of them have never even looked at one , just go off from what someone else told them . I have that manual , it is very helpful using some of the older powders . There are loads there that are identical to current load data , some are even less than current . I have never had a problem with the starting load data in Speer #8 and working from there .