[QUOTE=BoogersXDm;139564444]Not exactly.

/legend%20of%20.45.htm"]source[/URL].




"The Luger automatic pistol as a hunting pistol and for dress occasions is attractive and useful. I have one which I prize highly, but for field service, in the hands of officers and men, it is a failure. It is too complicated, and cartridges often jam, but the main defect is that the bullet will not stop a Moro."
-Brigadier General Samuel S. Sumner, commenting on the trial issue of the 9mm Luger in theater during the Philippine Insurrections
(sorry its the same source I've been using, but if I need to find more to satisfy anyone here I will).

I like my 9mm too. It has its uses.
I may be mistaken, but, in California, where you reside, does the LAPD SWAT not still issue a 1911 chambered in .45( I know they used to?),


This is getting interesting,I will start with the second part. As per Gen Sumner "it is to complicated and jams often, but the main defect is that the bullet will not stop a Moro" . Even before the Glock 17 we were well on the way 100% reliable guns. Now it seems you have to go out of your way to find a unreliable pistol. I could be wrong on the dates but it seems the P08 im 9mm was introduced in 1904 for the German Army. The Moro uprising was over in 1913. In that 9 years was it possiblle that the US Army took possesssion of any significient number of 9mm lugers, and distributed them to a war in the Phillipines ? Perhaps, seems unlikely though and the Luger collector groups don't mention it. The US did though, in 1900, recieve 1000 7.65 Luger pistols for trial. Could that be what Gen. Sumner was talking about ? Now the first part, The good General reported "the Luger automatic pistol as a hunting pistol and for dress occasssions is attractive and useful". I left the Army in 1984 and seriuously doubt that and of my seniors would have considered me dressed with a Luger attractive, or usefull. I also have to wonder what it was that Gen Sumner hunted with his Luger. Richmond is near San Francisco, hundreds of miles form LA. I dont know what the swat team uses. Around here it is mostly 40 S&W the police use. Not sure what SIS is.

The 45 may hit harder, but is it any better. The 9mm goes faster, in real close contest maby the extra 200 fps will get your bullet on target sooner, saving the day, maby, it is possible. Maby the extra velocity of the 9mm will induce hydrostatic shock, I won't say it can't happen. Penetration, probably the 9mm has the upper hand, maby. Capicity goes to the 9mm, (except here in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia, as well as for my comrads in New York, New Jursey ect. 25 ACP and 45 ACP have the same capicity) but how often is that really useful ? One thing for sure, 9mm costs less, a real advantage when your as cheap as I am. Plus follow up shots are easier for most. I am not even taking sides in the 9mm/40/45 debate. Richmond, at that time, had one of the highest murder rates in the country. Rarely would a day go without a shooting or a week without a murder, (gangs, drugs) almost always a 9mm was used. ( when they could be identified first it was P series Rugers and later Glocks, almost always hardball ammo, apparently even gangsters have to watch the bottom line ). Next shotguns than 22's. What I saw indicated to me, was that one good hit from a 9mm was completely up to the task of putting a guy down, (fresh off the prison yard, buffed , drugged up tough guys). Maby the 45 is better.