Lyman 45 Sizer lube problem

Now that you have the basic problem identified and the right bullet sorted out; Your lube looks super soft! The room was hot? I have lubed with the Lyman 450 and 45 as well as RCBS's equivalent, and a Starr sizer. When the lube is that soft it will flow all over. In the summer I used the hard lubes that required a heater! In the winter the farm house was cold enough in the loading room, stick Alox required a heater! The stiff lubes sure made lubing cast bullets a lot cleaned!

Also in warm weather, throw the bullets for the next day's reloading in the refrigerator. Then you won't get your fingers all gooey!

Ivan
 
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Ivan the Butcher said:
Now that you have the basic problem identified and the right bullet sorted out; Your lube look super soft! The room was hot? I have lubed with the Lyman 450 and 45 as well as RCBS's equivalent, and a Starr sizer. When the lube is that soft it will flow all over. In the summer I used the hard lubes that required a heater! In the winter the farm house was cold enough in the loading room, stick Alox required a heater! The stiff lube sure made lubing cast bullets a lot cleaned!

Also in warm weather, throw the bullets for the next day's reloading in the refrigerator. Then you won't get your fingers all gooey!

Ivan
Click to expand...

This is the Lyman brand alox. It was about 70 degrees yesterday and the lube was a little stiffer than say, Peter Pan peanut butter. Having always tumble lubed I have nothing to compare it to. I assumed that exposure to air post sizing would stiffen it up. But it is messy and very, very wasteful with the way it's squirting out underneath the bullet.

My 2 fold plan is to A) Order Gas Checks and B) take the die out and run a bullet into it to see what lines up where.

Appreciate your help!
 
Glad you like it. Pretty sure I sent you all the parts I had along with it. Did I send molds also?


AlHunt said:
I believe it was you. Couldn't remember the seller. I definitely bought it from the forum. I love this thing, by the way and I appreciate having it.
Click to expand...
 
A harder lube won't hurt, but you can probably get by with what you have, just ease up on that pressure screw until you get it right.
 
max said:
Glad you like it. Pretty sure I sent you all the parts I had along with it. Did I send molds also?
Click to expand...

No, there were no molds. But none were offered with it, either. It was a great price all by itself. I recall you had bought it and never got around to setting it up yourself.

The only missing parts were the wrench for the top and the pivot bolt had been replaced with a regular bolt that works just fine.

I'll get it going. Time is the biggest enemy ...
 
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Well, I'm finally getting back around to this project. I pulled the die and the pics below show the depth the bullet goes into the die when the top punch is all the way down. They also show 4 rows of 4 holes each and the orientation of the bullet to the holes (the pic on the while cloth.

The holes are offset with 2 rows being placed higher than the other 2. In other words, going around the die, one set is up, the next set is lower, the next set is up and the last set is back down. Hopefully that's clear ...

As can be seen, the only holes that align with the lube grooves are the 2 highest holes. I don't see a way to make the bullet ride any lower in the die. If I block off all but the 2 topmost holes, the upper lube groove gets nothing.

I's appreciate any more thoughts on where I go from here.

Thanks for looking.

ETA: Looking back through this thread, I see where a couple of posters say the upper lube groove doesn't get lube. I don't quite understand why not, but can live with it is that's the case. I'm still squeezing lube under the bullet, though. It wastes much more than the amount in the one groove.
 

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The Lyman sizing die design with the offset holes for the lube means that there are no "dead spots" that will receive no lube. This means that every part of the bullet that is not being sized will get lube. This includes the area for the gas check if no gas check is being applied. The area below the bullet doesn't get lube because the center rod keeps lube from getting there. You will need to plug the holes at the level of the gas check. You could also try making Styrofoam or cardboard disks the size of the bullet to act as a filler or gasket to keep lube out of the gas check area.

It looks like your nose punch may be too large. For the wadcutter you are using the end of the punch should be small enough to go down into the die. This will enable you to get the bullet further into the die. A flat nose punch that is about 0.325" in diameter where it contacts the bullet should be fine.
 
Hi Al,

The problem is, you shouldn't seat the bullet all the way into the size-lube die! Look at the adjustment at the bottom of the bow attached to the lever. Adjust that to limit the depth the bullet will travel in the die. Remember, that sizer-lube die is also used for longer rifle bullets. Bullets that don't go all the way down won't waste lube.
 
I have 3 450s but yours is a little different. It looks like you need an o ring and seat the die a little deeper? Surely the set screw doesn't go in the groove? One grease groove on the bullet will work but that bullet needs a gas check. I am not sure that is the correct lube die. Can you adjust how high the bullet sets on the bottom threads? And I thought my stuff was old.:D
 
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Alright guys, I'll check out that top punch and find a manual for it so I can maybe adjust the seating depth up higher. I'll also go ahead and order up some gas checks to seal that bottom up.
 
Al, if you notice the long dark bolt at the bottom of your device, this controls the depth of the bullet into the sizing die. Adjust this so the top punch only pushes the bullet in, but allows the crimp groove to remain above the sizing die. When you go to lube the bullet, you don't have to crank lube with every bullet you size.
 

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lrrifleman said:
Al, if you notice the long dark bolt at the bottom of your device, this controls the depth of the bullet into the sizing die. Adjust this so the top punch only pushes the bullet in, but allows the crimp groove to remain above the sizing die. When you go to lube the bullet, you don't have to crank lube with every bullet you size.
Click to expand...

Got it - I was being very careful. The adjuster wasn't moving for me but I got it moving and a small adjustment has me going.

The tip about not having to crank the lube arm every time was also key. Turns out a very gentle touch is the way to go. I now have the gas check area getting a small amount of lube (none to speak of UNDER the bullet), the bottom lube groove well lubed but the next one up getting nothing. I think that will work.

A gas check should alleviate the lube getting in there.

So, THANKS everyone who jumped in here.

I'll probably start another thread about cast bullets in the 5.56, my hopeful next trick...
 
Mike said:
You die plug return plunger is adjusted wrong. Back off on the locknut and adjust the plunger rod down a turn or 2. Tighten the lock nut and lube a bullet......Simple 2 minute adjustment fix.
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed. Getting it adjusted correctly seems to have solved most of my problems. Thanks for the information!
 
4barrel said:
I have 3 450s but yours is a little different. It looks like you need an o ring and seat the die a little deeper? Surely the set screw doesn't go in the groove? One grease groove on the bullet will work but that bullet needs a gas check. I am not sure that is the correct lube die. Can you adjust how high the bullet sets on the bottom threads? And I thought my stuff was old.:D
Click to expand...

This was a used piece of equipment I bought and the die was in place when it arrived. The upper groove does seem like it should have an O-Ring but it's clear that the set screw has been holding the die in place.

I can adjust the depth of the bullet and have now figured that part out. I'll keep looking for a PDF of whatever manual came with it originally.
 
You don't need to plug any of the holes in the die. Set the depth adjustment screw sleeve to the correct height for the bullet and you are good to go. You also need to have the correct top punch installed. When properly adjusted The ram inside the die will block any lube from getting under the the bullet SO LONG AS YOU KEEP PRESSURE ON THE HANDLE while giving the ratchet wrench a sight turn to force lube into the grooves.
Smaller diameter bullets with only one or two lube grooves require the least amount of of pressure on the ratchet. Sometime two or three bullets can be lubed without any added pressure.
But remember to hold down the lever while turning the ratchet.
Look in here to find a user manual for the new 4500 model. It will cover the basics and should still be helpful for your older 45 model.
User Manuals

And if you need an O ring for your sizer die, go to the hardware store and, for a couple dollars, buy a pack of #35, 11/16" OD X 9/16" ID X 1/16" rings. These work fine with the Lyman sizer dies.

John
 
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TIMETRIPPER said:
And if you need an O ring for your sizer die, go to the hardware store and, for a couple dollars, buy a pack of #35, 11/16" OD X 9/16" ID X 1/16" rings. These work fine with the Lyman sizer dies. John
Click to expand...

You should have an "O" ring at the top of the sizer die. When brand new, they come with one, so you won't have to try to move it back and forth.

I can't remember if the holes in the die are #4 or #6 shot sized but remember RCBS and Lyman dies are the exact same so a call to either customer service will get that question answered! However, I have never seen anyone fill the holes (including me). I have bought dozens used and not one hole was filled.

The reason the top groove isn't filled with lube is: It is the crimp groove! (for roll or taper crimps)

Ivan
 
I can see why there's no need to fill the holes since the ram blocks those holes internally. Correcting the adjustment and refining my technique have me on track, I think.

It sounds like I need to install an O-ring and lower the die so the set screw rides on the top ring of the die body.
 
I found PDF instruction manual for 450 on line . It seems I had to do a search " Lyman 450 lube/sizer Instruction Manual and Parts " to find the site it was located at . The regular Lyman site got me nowhere , but I may have overlooked it there .
Seems they had manual/parts for 45 , 450 and 4500 there .
Lyman still has replacement parts for the 450 so I stocked up on some...they may have some 45 parts also .
Adjusting the bullet depth in the die and the amount of lube pressure are critical to getting it " Baby Bear" ... Just Right .
Flat nose punch works great on SWC . Fill one with epoxy and sand flat .
Stick with it ,
Gary
 
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