First of all, I came along and started my armorer training after the 3rd gen models were released. While the 2nd gen guns were discussed in my classes, it was mostly how to use the applicable newer parts in the older 2nd gen guns.

I have a binder of the older armorer training manuals for the 1st and 2nd gen guns, left to me by the former head armorer. They contain a lot more instructions about the need for hand-fitting that weren't needed by the increasingly better machined 3rd gen models.

The older extractors, like those listed used in the 2nd gen models and then the early 3rd gen models, didn't have quite the pronounced adjustment pad as the revised extractors we were told to use when I took my first pistol armorer class for the 3rd gen guns. The revised extractors provided for more a precise fit in any particular slide, but at the cost of more fitting.

The older manual lists that stoning should not be required for installing the older extractors. It discussed checking the hook for burrs, as well as checking for burrs in the extractor slot. (Older machining.) The extractor tension back then was 4-5lbs.

The 2nd gen manual and notes list that extractor hook fit was checked using a properly sized Dummy round, looking for the tension to securely hold the round under the extractor (Sound familiar to 1911 aficionados?). If more tension was needed to hold the Dummy round, or if stove-pipes occurred, then the pad would have to be filed to create more tension (by putting the hook closer). Range testing was done to check function.

By the time I became interested in becoming an armorer for our 3rd gen guns, the armorer training had changed to incorporate the use of a set of Bar & Flag gauges to check for "fit", the extractors had been revised to include a pronounced (thick) adjustment pad and the use of a spring force dial gauge had been introduced.

The extractor spring tension was a bit different than the older manual, too. Instead of the previous 4-5lb tension for a 9mm, there were different tensions, depending on whether it was a single or double stack 9mm, and then whether the breech (bolt) face was the older style or the newer style. The older style had the face of the slide machined with a round bolt face, with curved shoulders above the case on each side, while the new style had a straight cut bolt face (with a resulting wider barrel tab).

The "39" series guns had a 4-7lb tension, and the "59/69" series guns had a 4-11lbs tension, except that was further broken down differently for the old & new style breech/bolt face designs. The "old" bolt face was listed at 4-8lbs, but the new bolt face was listed at 7-11lbs. Except ... we were told that sometimes the older machining tolerances and methods might require an occasional gun with the old style bolt face to need a slightly heavier tension, and they offered a repair set of extractor springs that were nested (narrow/tall one nested inside a standard size spring) for us to use.

The slightly heavier tension was something to be very carefully approached for any particular gun, though, as it had to be the right balance to allow for both good extractor engagement and extraction, but not create too much tension that it interfered with proper feeding. I remember a couple of older production 5903's needing their extractor spring tension in the 12-13lb range after extractors had to be replaced with new ones. That was using the nested spring sets.

Later on they made the nested repair spring set obsolete and replaced it with a pair of the optional springs. Armorers could try each spring and see which spring put the tension within range and allowed for proper functioning in the occasional older 9mm (that might have a slide with some variance in the dimension and shape of the extractor spring hole).

The manuals listed some recommendations for which of the 6 extractor springs might work in the 39 & 59/69 series guns. There were 6 springs that could be tried, meaning standard and some optional ones.

Now, I just went out and checked some of my older parts, and I was able to find an older black extractor of the type used in the 2nd gen and early 3rd gen 9mm guns. I took some pics of it next to a revised stainless extractor that was introduced later in the 3rd gen guns. You can see some obvious differences in the size and dimension of the "pad" behind the hook, and even in the shape of the hook. Note the hook of the revised extractor design could have better reach and room to engage and grab a case rim.





BTW, the extractor Bar gauge was just a 2-ended steel bar that had the GO & NO-GO dimensions respectively machined into ends, so the designated 'face' (side) could be used to check the reach of the hook and its tightness or looseness. The GO gauge should fit between the edge of the hook and the opposite breech face shoulder, and the NO-GO end should not be able to fit between them. Any good machinist could produce such a precision bar.

Now, an interesting bit of trivia about the Bar gauges sold to armorers was that the machine shop the factory contracted to produce the gauges for their armorer training program apparently made a mistake at one point or another. The GO & NO-GO markings were on the face of the Bars, but we were told to check the ends of the Bars to see of GO & NO-GO were marked on the ends, too. If there were GO & NO-GO marked on the ends, and they were opposite of what was marked on the face of the BAR, the markings on the end were the ones to use. (Apparently, the markings on the face had been incorrectly marked on some Bar gauges, so they marked the ends with the actual orientation. )

Perhaps you may find a smith or armorer somewhere down there who might have an older extractor or two which might drop into your 2nd gen slide (and he'd know how to check to make sure it didn't need any filing, anyway, just to make sure).

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer