M&P 380 EZ Stovepipe Cure?

christak said:

Very interesting! Your theory makes a lot of sense to me, having lived through the pain of the stovepipe issue first hand...

Edit: Just checked the mag fit with my slide removed. It's very loose as you mentioned. The mag moves more than 1/16th of an inch front to back and less than that side to side. With the slide in place and locked back, there doesn't seem to be any noticeable movement of the mag. Hard to know what happens with the mag when the gun is firing, but my guess is there is some movement in there. Not sure why only the last round would be a problem though, unless the weaker spring tension just can't hold the round at that point.

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christak,

I believe you are seeing a more stable magazine with the slide in place and locked back because you are testing with an empty magazine.

The mechanism on the EZ that causes a slide lock on empty is the thumb stud on an empty magazine. The empty magazine is likely stabilized by the downward pressure from the slide lock lever.

See if you can test this again with the slide installed and at least one snap cap installed in the magazine. Lock the slide back and see if you get the same excessive front to back play (whiplash) in the magazine with that one snap cap still in the magazine.

three5seven said:

christak,

I believe you are seeing a more stable magazine with the slide in place and locked back because you are testing with an empty magazine.

The mechanism on the EZ that causes a slide lock on empty is the thumb stud on an empty magazine. The empty magazine is likely stabilized by the downward pressure from the slide lock lever.

See if you can test this again with the slide installed and at least one snap cap installed in the magazine. Lock the slide back and see if you get the same excessive front to back play (whiplash) in the magazine with that one snap cap still in the magazine.

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You are absolutely correct! I put a round in the mag and inserted it with the slide locked back and the mag moves all over the place...mainly front to back, but also side to side a bit. Never realized this was going on...very sloppy fit! I think you are on to something!

I checked the magazine play of a couple of other .380 pistols. My Remington RM380 has more front-to-back movement than the EZ and my double-stack SIG P250 has much more side-to-side movement.

gc70 said:

I checked the magazine play of a couple of other .380 pistols. My Remington RM380 has more front-to-back movement than the EZ and my double-stack SIG P250 has much more side-to-side movement.

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Could be a combination of excessive movement and the weaker (EZ) mag spring... Who knows?!

gc70 said:

I checked the magazine play of a couple of other .380 pistols. My Remington RM380 has more front-to-back movement than the EZ and my double-stack SIG P250 has much more side-to-side movement.

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Not scientific, but can you load ONE round in each of your differing "makes" of 380 magazines and press down on those rounds?

How does the required pressure to depress that ONE round feel in comparison to each other?

Slightly more scientific... load one round in each magazine and press them nose down on a digital food scale to see how much required pressure in lbs/oz to get quarter inch of movement of the bullet nose into the mag WITHOUT bottoming out any part of the top of the magazine on the digital food scale.

What are those values?

My best guess is a combination of too much front to back play of the magazine coupled with "too EZ" magazine spring pressure.

Smith and Wesson was out to make a huge marketing point in the ease of use for the EZ.

Marketing likely pressed engineers to push the lower limit of magazine spring pressure.

Checked the wife's, as yet unfired EZ, and the fore & aft, and sideways compared to my Dan Wesson's Guardian I used as a CCW before getting sick and they do not wiggle. However it would be like comparing apples and oranges as guardian and DW's in general are high end guns.

Sloppy mags are a function of the American fascination with drop free magazines which are only really relevant in competition IMHO.

Please keep us informed as to the outcome when your gun is returned. I just started a new thread on this issue today, as a result of my range session. Smith needs to devote some R&D time to this issue, or it will hurt sales, as the word gets out.

Bigborgel said:

Please keep us informed as to the outcome when your gun is returned. I just started a new thread on this issue today, as a result of my range session. Smith needs to devote some R&D time to this issue, or it will hurt sales, as the word gets out.

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I sent my gun in back in April..."Nothing wrong with the gun"...according to them and they sent new magazines...didn't fix the problem. The magazine springs and the sloppy fit in the mag well are the problem in my opinion, but Smith has done nothing to address the issue. Very disappointing. When the springs wear, the issue gets worse.

380 EZ last-round stovepipe

Unfortunately, I went ahead and bought a new EZ 380 Shield yesterday. In my state, I have to wait 10-days to pick it up.


I've read, re-read, and re-re-read every thread/post on this subject with disappointment. I'm wondering if I should call my LGS tomorrow and see if I can cancel the deal ?


Anyways, in poking around on the Internet, I did come across this post which has a very interesting theory.



I'm wondering if anyone else has heard/seen this theory, and/or tried it ? Seems like a pretty simple mod to try.


Here it is:



Karen L: (from: 'thetruthaboutguns')


I experienced the stovepiping, or more often ejection of the final, unfired round in both of my mags, with the slide ending up forward in battery, not locked open. Rather than suspecting magazine springs being too weak, I suspected that the last round slides more readily on the slippery surface of the plastic follower than all of the previous rounds sliding on the round below them. As an experiment, I installed some self adhesive grip tape to the top surface of the plastic follower. It solved the problem, at least so far. This occurred with new mags and with a friends new gun as well.

mokeman...check out this thread. Scuffing the follower will fix the stovepipe issue. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/603025-new-380-ez-issues-2.html#post140763440

We have 2 .380 Ez's. One performance center and one standard. We sent each one back to Smith for stovepiping on last round and got new mag springs. Smith also, at my request sent us a few extra springs as I had extra mags, but haven't used them yet. Haven't seen the issue after the spring change. A few hundred rounds on each since.

christak said:

mokeman...check out this thread. Scuffing the follower will fix the stovepipe issue. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/603025-new-380-ez-issues-2.html#post140763440

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THANK you !!!!!


... I just wish that post of yours was here, at the bottom of THIS thread.


But that's Ok, - the information is here none the less.


So I guess I don't have to try to cancel this deal. I paid for the gun, and on the 10-day wait (near Seattle).


So I'm assuming that this fix has been working for you, and that you like the gun now, and/or would still recommend it, yes ?

mokeman said:

THANK you !!!!!


... I just wish that post of yours was here, at the bottom of THIS thread.


But that's Ok, - the information is here none the less.


So I guess I don't have to try to cancel this deal. I paid for the gun, and on the 10-day wait (near Seattle).


So I'm assuming that this fix has been working for you, and that you like the gun now, and/or would still recommend it, yes ?

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I bought one for my wife right after New Years and haven't had 1 issue. Don't tell anyone, I really like shooting it.

mokeman said:

THANK you !!!!!


... I just wish that post of yours was here, at the bottom of THIS thread.


But that's Ok, - the information is here none the less.


So I guess I don't have to try to cancel this deal. I paid for the gun, and on the 10-day wait (near Seattle).


So I'm assuming that this fix has been working for you, and that you like the gun now, and/or would still recommend it, yes ?

Click to expand...

Scuffing the follower has worked for me, but my whole ordeal has left a bad taste in my mouth. Smith has done nothing to fix the issue. Providing new springs is all they do...and that is a temporary "band-aid" fix.

I like the idea of the gun, an easy to rack and soft shooting handgun. I bought it thinking my wife might enjoy it. I don't think that I could "recommend" the gun and I wouldn't buy it again, knowing what I know now. But, given that the scuffing fix works, I think you'll do ok with your EZ purchase.

You have to understand that I was frustrated with my EZ and actively working with Smith and the others here for well over a year searching for a fix before we finally stumbled onto this fix. Smith really dropped the ball and I don't appreciate it.

Doubtful that S&W fixed the problem because the forum would light up if they did. This is a sad situation that a manufacturer of 'quality' weapons let this pistol out the door, and then hasn't fixed the problem. Reminds me of the Remington pistol that escaped the factory with a problem. I've waited about a year on the fix, guess I'll sell this unreliable pistol and buy one that is reliable. Like a Ruger maybe.

I'm a complete novice still working on things (low left shots) but here's my experience if it helps:

Have ser # RDV5XXX with manual safety, 400 Blazer Brass rnds through it, not one issue. Cleaned it before ever used it.

My range buddy (ok...also my trainer) who is very experienced buys one based on performance of mine, intended for a lady in his life. On his, the damn thing has the problem right away, happening over two trips..

I've never hit the safety by accident but I think he did however as stated in this thread previously, how could that only affect 2nd to last round?

Hindsight, wish I would have not been such a wus and gotten a 9mm right off the bat which I do have now, could have saved my old buddy the grief but I'd certainly like to hear of a fix so he can have his lady confidently carry it and if I ever do carry I'd like to trust mine.

Disappointing

I'm a new owner of this firearm and was really enjoying shooting it until it stovepiped. I read others refer to the grip, and have heard this before on other forums but I'm certain thats not the issue here; I'm used to sending 200-500 rounds down range with .45 semi-autos and my EDC is a Sig .45 Nightmare that I shoot regularly.

So back to the M&P 380 EZ, when it jammed around the 2nd or 3rd time, I ejected the magazine and it had 2 rounds stuck in the magazine and the spring was still compressed about 2 rounds lower. I tapped the magazine on the bench and it sprung back up. I emptied the 2 remaining rounds and then using my fingers, rapidly compressed the spring multiple times (about 20) and then reloaded. That seemed to work fine for about 16 rounds then it stovepiped again. I'm using PMC and Federal, 90g FMJ ammo that works flawlessly in my Sig P238 so this appears to be a magazine issue (in my humble opinion).

From what I saw, it looked like the something was catching on the inside of the magazine that could possibly smooth out over time or just needs some "TLC" to work out the rough spots. I don't know (yet).

This is my first S&W Semi Auto, handgun and looking online, I do see that the M&P Shield EZ 9mm has some after market magazines with varying degrees of compression. I'm seeing +5 and +10 (unsure what that implies) however, this one website was out of stock on the 9mm and didn't have any .380ACP at all.

All that said, I am curious now as to whether the Mag Springs were a little too "EZ" or if there is a manufacturing QC issue within the magazine itself.

More to come - I opened a case with S&W on this and will report back what I find. I'll also share what I find once I KD the mag's and inspect them.

Have a blessed day!

Range Trip Last week came with failures to lock open on last round & loose rounds getting stuck straight up on last shot etc.. Totally Unacceptable..

My Cure was to sell the 380 EZ at a Profit to a local gun shop for $350.
We Paid $279 a few months back..
My Twin Brother now has my 9mm 2.0 Shield so I went & bought a Lonely 40 S&W HK USP Compact Stainless for $579 that sat unwanted because it was a 40, They have another blued one that I should snag for my other hand, Besides I have six magazines for it + ammo.. We'll see about that??

First time at gun range since getting back from S&W for stovepipe issues, all six magazines followers were scuffing up . Shot 150 round of different ammo no issues . Hope this help