Time Specific
I think ultimately the huge piece of history that we are missing here is the " Transition" that took place with shipping products?
If one was to actually perform research you will find that prior to 1900? All items were shipped in shipping crates or " custom made wood boxes" by whomever was shipping the product. This is documented and easily found. I've also read this fact listed in a few of my Distributor catalogs from that period. Pre-1900. They had a box maker manufacture their own shipping crates and heavy boxes for shipping any product in bulk to a buyer.
(Photo one & two) show a single Winchester rifle pre-1900 shipped in a wooden crate by itself. "ONE" gun in a crate. What most often occurred when the "Distributor/Retailer" received the gun? They would remove the gun(s) from their crates and either place them into a Retailers box for sale on the floor Or no box at all.
Perhaps a smaller retailer would hang them on the wall, placed them in a glass cabinet for display and sale, or left them stored in the shipping crate until they were moved out onto the floor for sale.
After 1900 shipping changed dramatically. That's why I am constantly using the term "TIME SPECIFIC" to this thread. We can't mix the 1950's with the 1870's crating and shipping of guns. These pre-1900 pasteboard boxes are near identical from one firm to the next if you do your research? So box making at that time was near a carbon copy. The Distributor could have easily had the boxes made for any product that was "CRATED" to their location. This includes guns placed into a "RETAILER BOX" after being removed from from a shipping crate for sale on the floor.
So, after 1900 it's documented that shipping methods changed to eliminate the crate concept and introduced a shipping container provided in this case by the Railroad? that would compliment "form fit" cardboard boxing of products. (See photo) This would include guns. It would also include these pasteboard boxes that would be carefully packaged in shipping containers with much better packing materials. This was to eliminate the crate requirement for safe shipping at any distance.
If you think about it? This shipping container concept would eliminate a lot of "Product damage" from poor packing by the manufacturer or shipper and damage claims by either the receiver of the product or the shipping contractor (Railroad?). Claiming that the product was poorly packed to begin with! It's not our fault! You pay for damages! It would also reduce overall weight for the Train to haul. Imagine eliminating single crates for rifles and now shipping them in a bulk container provided by the Railroad. Still in a crate type packing but much more consolidated and form fit for safer shipping.
Prior to this timeframe custom product "CRATES" were the only method used to ship products long distances. This historically accurate concept explains a lot regarding the early pasteboard boxes found in "mint" condition and often appearing like a gun actually never "shipped inside the box"!! Because it didn't!
Not until after 1900, when shipping methods changed dramatically. Since box making was near identical from one firm to the next? No change would be seen in box designs. So no transition is visible. A "RETAILER BOX" would look identical to a "FACTORY BOX". Perhaps a different color material, a different designed label and different instructions? The boxes would look so alike that you couldn't tell who actually had the box made until after 1900.
If we look closely at the boxes? You can see a post 1900 ,or very close to that time frame, box change that took place with the photo's that I posted. The box instructions now included a very clear caliber marking, barrel length, and model. Also often having additional buy "factory" pearl grip adds to the bottom of the box. With a unique Black & White label never seen on earlier boxes!!!
I would definitely concur that these later boxes are most definitely "factory boxes" that just happened to appear in the 1900 time frame at the same time that shipping methods changed dramatically!! Making it possible to ship the guns in these pasteboard boxes safely and without product damage taking place. See last photo.
Prior to this timeframe? There is no way in my opinion to determine who actually had the box made. Also, who actually boxed the gun. I have documented a lot of very solid evidence from many early Distributors that clearly points to them as the source of the early "Retailer" boxes for various pistols/makes and models from several Distributor firms Pre-1900. It's also obvious that they could have very easily had these early boxes made and boxed the guns after receiving them in bulk in early shipping crates.
It's also obvious that the 800 Baby Russian 38 caliber guns shipped to the Baltimore police in 1876/1877 timeframe were shipped in Crates and not in pasteboard boxes! One of those shipments is factory documented as a 550 gun bulk order!
Murph
Last edited by BMur; 10-01-2020 at 02:41 PM.
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