Now they are after the hunting guns

[oldman45]

NY bill takes aim at hunting rifles - NYPOST.com

Briefly, there is a Congress person now introducing a bill in the northeast that could ban some hunting weapons.

The increase in shootings around the nation and the publicity many shootings are getting is going to make this type legislation a common thing around the US.

While I know the shootings are the work of individuals, stopping this type legislation is going to take a major group action on the part of all gun owners.

[Jswiney9]

one fruit loop goes off the deep end and they are trying to ban anything, I guess its a good strategy though, start working on all of the anti-gun **** while its fresh on peoples minds.

[Snowbandit]

Nothing we can do about this one. Sorry, too many hunters have abandoned the rest of us. The Second Amendment only applies to military and defensive weapons.

[ace22]

the bottom line is that they want to ban everything firearms related.
they know that they can't do it all at once so they chip away at different things with the intention of when one domino falls they'll start pushing the next one. they don't care how they get it done, they just want it done!

[ladder13]

Yesterday's news, they've been talking about that for at least a decade. With the State Senate in Republican control there's slim chance of that passing the Legislature.
She's a New York State Assemblywoman NOT a Congesswoman, won't affect anywhere else besides NY.
REPEAT, this ONLY pertains to NY.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Snowbandit

too many hunters have abandoned the rest of us.

Agreed, the so-called "hunters, sportsmen, and gun-owners" have been living off the backs of NRA members for decades. 4 million NRA members is a disgrace when there's allegedly 70+ million people who own firearms.

[oldman45]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Yesterday's news, they've been talking about that for at least a decade. With the State Senate in Republican control there's slim chance of that passing the Legislature.
She's a New York State Assemblywoman NOT a Congesswoman, won't affect anywhere else besides NY.
REPEAT, this ONLY pertains to NY.

With the political climate as it is, if it happens in NY, it will be a short step to other states.

We cannot take anything for granted now. Those outside NY needs to email those in control in NY. Those receiving the emails will not know if the sender is a NY voter or not.

A slim chance is still a chance. Prayer was taken from schools with less than 12 people petitioning for it.

[badguybuster]

Ladder13-That is well said!!!

[stantheman86]

Is this the GD McCarthy battle axe at work again?

Her hi-cap mag ban didn't go over like she thought, so now she's after "sniper rifles".....

I am a life member of the NRA, just for the record......but I have heard one too many "hunters" who could care less about the NRA, or anything having to do with gun rights, you got Jim Bob and Earl who would sell us all down the river as long as they could get their Rem 700 out of lockup once a year to deer hunt.......they would probably turn over all their guns to the ATF as long as they could bow hunt......these are not gun rights supporters, they are just guys who fire 5 rounds a year from some rusted busted 30-06 and then throw it back in the closet when they fill their buck tag.

[Herknav]

As a firearm afficianado and NRA member whose interests do include hunting (for food as opposed to sport), I sadly find myself in agreement with you that a lot of hunters don't pull their share of the load. However, it's also fair to say that the NRA has been agonizing slow in welcoming non-hunters into the fold. In fact, they still do not allow use of the word "weapon" in any of their classes.

[oldman45]

I agree that more need to be in the NRA. While we each have problems with the NRA, they are the best available to protect our firearm rights. They have done a good job in the past and are working hard for our future rights.

Sadly, there are many gun owners that are simply gun owners and do not care what happens in Congress. Those owning just one gun will not worry a lot about their rights. Hunting is seeing fewer people each year. Yet I see more serious gun owners each year that value their rights and their guns.

For many years, I was pretty much forbidden to belong to the NRA due to my testimony being offered in courts involving guns. So the lady that lives with me only to spend my money became the NRA member. Once I got the approval to re-join the NRA, I immediately did so. I will become a life member as soon as I finally retire.

[Pioneer461]

Too many hunters feel they are exempt from the gun control argument. Just like Jim Zumbo a couple of years ago, as long as he doesn't own an "assault rifle," he didn't care. He was promptly spanked by us and now, he does care.

[David LaPell]

I wish all the guys out there who have been after the AR-15 and AK owners (don't own either but will support them tooth, fang, and claw) could see this. I have heard from them for years how they were never going to go after the hunting guns but they threw the "assaulted weapons" owners under the bus by endorsing and supporting people like Hillary and Kirsten Gillibrand. When is it going to get through some people's heads that they will ban every single gun no matter if it is a muzzleloading flintlock. They just take one bite from the apple at a time.

[oldman45]

I am old enough to look at things from a different view based on experience.

I do not see the interest in hunting in today's youth. There are fewer hunting license being sold today than 20 years ago. It is possible there are valid reasons for this like the shortage of hunting lands, the increased cost of hunting and the shortage of mentors for the young hunters. Whatever the reason, there are fewer hunters. Fewer hunters means those growing up today does not care about gun rights or the related areas.

I see fewer gun lovers today. The older generation, say from 40 upward, enjoys their guns. The younger generation looks at guns totally different. Most are not active shooters. Many more are banned from being around guns. Hollywood has changed the view of guns by the young.

All this is going to reduce the interest in guns and the NRA each year. In a few short decades, gun owners will be in a minority in my opinion.

A person owning one gun for home defense will not be as concerned with gun laws or gun rights as someone with 10 or more guns. A person that has to travel 50 miles to locate a place to shoot is not going to be shooting often and will not be concerned with gun rights. The lack of open hunting land will decrease the number of those with shotguns, rifles and such.

Those we see today, the younger groups, are going after the AR, AK, black plastic guns and not the true quality workmanship guns that we enjoy today. Those inheriting guns from grandpa today are not as excited over the gun as was grandpa when he got it.

I have two daughters left. One is 45 and one is 30. The eldest is not into guns at all. Neither is her husband. They do not allow guns in their home. Nor will they ever be in the NRA or support gun rights but both are conservative Republicans.

My youngest daughter was a very active shooter as a pre teen and a tenager. Today she shoots very seldom. The men she has dated are not interested in guns. The few I have met when she would bring them buy were more interested in my old convertibles than sitting in the gun room and knew almost zero about guns. I have a fortune in guns here and there is nobody that cares about them after I am gone. I asked my daughter if she knew what one of my guns was worth and she replied, $200?" It is worth a few thousand. Youth today do not care about guns, quality, value or rights.

Is this the way of the future? Can we save the future for our grandchildren?

We now bring our kids up in the urban areas where shooting, livestock and other things are not possible Horseback riding and shooting are things most youngsters will not know, if for no other reason than we "oldtimers" have moved away from our roots and not giving the kids the same advantages we had.

I am afraid the NRA is going to be effected by our actions in years to come.

Ok, off my rant now.

[mkk41]

In some proposed legislation , any common center-fire sporting rifle that can or can be made to accept a telescopic sight , is considered a 'sniper rifle' for purposes of registration and banning.

Other proposals include ANY former military-issue firearms , including Trapdoor Springfields.

[DeadManWalking]

Originally Posted by Pioneer461

Too many hunters feel they are exempt from the gun control argument. Just like Jim Zumbo a couple of years ago, as long as he doesn't own an "assault rifle," he didn't care. He was promptly spanked by us and now, he does care.

I didn't hear about jim zumbo but anyone who thinks that there firearms are any different than someone else's better wake up. The aim of the democrats (the left, the socialist/communist, etc.) is to disarm us, one gun type at a time. Just read the list of banned firearms and tell me there is no agenda here.


Just machineguns.
Just silencers.
Just short barrels.
Just ones that look different.
Just pistols, in some places.
Just all guns in a few states.
Just most magazines.
Just folding stocks.
Just guns with rifled barrels over .500 bore.
Just threaded barrels.
Just concealed carry.
Just open carry.
Just Chinese guns.
Just Chinese ammo.
Just armor piercing ammo.
Just hollow points.
Just lead ammo.
Just military guns.
Just scary looking shotguns.
Just anything south african.
Just select fire.
Just pistol grips.
Just flash hiders.
Just magazines that attach outside the pistol grip.
Just pistols over 50 ounces.
Just grenade launchers.
Just bayonet lugs.
Just open bolt.
Just semi automatic clones of full auto guns.
Just shotguns that can accept detachable magazines.
Just shotguns that can hold over 5 rounds.
Just guns without enough American parts.
Just imported guns that don't make a specific "sporting-purpose" parts count.
Just the Algimec Agmi
Just the Armalite AR-180
Just the Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol
Just the Auto-Ordnance Thompson type
Just the ****mat Kalashnikov AK-47 type
Just the Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1
Just the Beretta AR-70
Just the Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol
Just the Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P
Just the Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88
Just the Colt AR-15 and Sporter
Just the Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2
Just the Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45
Just the Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FN/FNC
Just the FAMAS MAS 223
Just the Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT
Just the Federal XC-900 and XC-450
Just the Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12
Just the Galil AR and ARM
Just the Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol
Just the Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89
Just the Holmes MP-83
Just the MAC-10
Just the MAC-11 and MAC-11 Carbine type
Just the Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion
Just the Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000
Just the Ruger Mini-14/5F
Just the Scarab Skorpion
Just the SIG 57 AMT and 500 series
Just the Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol
Just the Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3
Just the Sterling MK-6 and MK-7
Just the Steyr AUG
Just the Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns
Just the USAS-12
Just the UZI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol
Just the Weaver Arms Nighthawk
Just the Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol

And just because one of these weapons isn't banned in your state . . . .

What part of "shall not infringe" do you not understand?

[David LaPell]

I know in the Hunter Safety courses I have been teaching over the last couple of years it seems as though alot of the kids are there because dad wants them to be. Most seem to care less if they pass or fail. One of my wife's relatives has been trying to drag his son out in the woods for the last two or three years. He would rather stay indoors and play video games. I can tell you that the kids being plugged into every device known to man has something to do with kids not going outside anymore. Why should the kids find something to do outside anymore when they can plug in and play? Why use your imagination when a game can do it for you? I feel for our future I do, all of the guys I hang out with who are shooters and gun owners are all 65 and older. What am I going to do when they're gone? I see alot more gray hair than brown at gun shows which means I am not alone at this.

[nogods]

New York State has the highest percentage of concealed carry permits per 1000 of population.

NYS has approximately 1.1 million citizens with concealed carry permits with a population of only 19.5 million. Texas has 25.1 million people but only 465,000 handgun permits.

And when you take out New York City (a population 8.5 million but only 37,000 concealed carry permits) that means upstate NY with a population of 11 million has close to 1.1 million concealed carry permit holders.

Thus, upstate NY has less than 1/2 the population of Texas, but nearly 2 1/2 times as many concealed carry permit holders.

[DeadManWalking]

Originally Posted by nogods

New York State has the highest percentage of concealed carry permits per 1000 of population.

NYS has approximately 1.1 million citizens with concealed carry permits with a population of only 19.5 million. Texas has 25.1 million people but only 465,000 handgun permits.

And when you take out New York City (a population 8.5 million but only 37,000 concealed carry permits) that means upstate NY with a population of 11 million has close to 1.1 million concealed carry permit holders.

Thus, upstate NY has less than 1/2 the population of Texas, but nearly 2 1/2 times as many concealed carry permit holders.

But I'd bet Texas has more guns? Most Texans don't feel they need to hide their gun so why get a silly arsed worthless permit and they surely don't like having to ask no one for permission to carry, believe in the US Constitution, including the 2nd Amendment. You can't compare new york to Texas, it's like comparing tofu to fillet mignon, it just don't equate.

[nogods]

Originally Posted by DeadManWalking

But I'd bet Texas has more guns? Most Texans don't feel they need to hide their gun so why get a silly arsed worthless permit and they surely don't like having to ask no one for permission to carry, believe in the US Constitution, including the 2nd Amendment. You can't compare new york to Texas, it's like comparing tofu to fillet mignon, it just don't equate.

are you suggesting that most Texans are ignoring Texas law and are carrying firearms that require permits without permits?

Yeah, right.

It might hurt Texans' image, but outside of New York City, NY State has a much higher percentage of citizens with handgun permits.

You don't need a permit to own a long gun in New York.

[watchmanjimg]

Originally Posted by nogods

are you suggesting that most Texans are ignoring Texas law and are carrying firearms that require permits without permits?

Yeah, right.

It might hurt Texans' image, but outside of New York City, NY State has a much higher percentage of citizens with handgun permits.

You don't need a permit to own a long gun in New York.

I was unaware of these statistics, but I'm not surprised. NY has a rich history of firearms ownership and related activities as well as a ton of veterans. It's a shame they haven't been able to develop more of a voice in their local politics.

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by nogods

New York State has the highest percentage of concealed carry permits per 1000 of population.

NYS has approximately 1.1 million citizens with concealed carry permits with a population of only 19.5 million. Texas has 25.1 million people but only 465,000 handgun permits.

And when you take out New York City (a population 8.5 million but only 37,000 concealed carry permits) that means upstate NY with a population of 11 million has close to 1.1 million concealed carry permit holders.

Thus, upstate NY has less than 1/2 the population of Texas, but nearly 2 1/2 times as many concealed carry permit holders.

Are those permits to CARRY a handgun, or permits to OWN a handgun? Texas, along with most states, don't require permits of any kind to OWN, unlike NY, therefor no need for the permits.

Anyway, I always read Indiana had the highest CCW/population rate.

[nogods]

Originally Posted by johngalt

Are those permits to CARRY a handgun, or permits to OWN a handgun? Texas, along with most states, don't require permits of any kind to OWN, unlike NY, therefor no need for the permits.

Anyway, I always read Indiana had the highest CCW/population rate.

A 2004 Indy Star article claimed that Indiana was second only to New York in the number per 1,000 adult residents with handgun permits.

NY does not require a permit or registration for long guns.

NY is a "shall issue" state for a permit to own a handgun for self defense in one's residence.

NY is a "may issue" state for concealed carry of a handgun.

I don't know of anyone who ever applied for a residence only permit but I supposed there have been a few. Most people apply for a concealed carry permit and end up with a restricted concealed carry permit. The restrictions, however, are administrative rather than legal. You can't be prosecuted for violating the restrictions.

Yes, there are differences between the gun laws of NY and Texas. But in both states you need a permit to conceal carry a handgun.

Just limit it to concealed carry permits. Upstate NY residence still have over twice as many concealed carry permits with less than half the population of all of Texas. And as I understand it Texas is a "shall issue" state for conceal carry while NY is a "may issue" for conceal carry.

Think of it from a marketing standpoint. You have a product that is useful for concealed carry. You can only afford to start advertising your product in one state.

10% of the upstate residents in NY have concealed carry permits. Only 2% of the state of Texas residents have concealed carry permits. In raw numbers you have nearly a million potential customers in NY and only 460,000 in Texas. Where are you going to spend those limited advertising dollars?

[thomashoward]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Yesterday's news, they've been talking about that for at least a decade. With the State Senate in Republican control there's slim chance of that passing the Legislature.
She's a New York State Assemblywoman NOT a Congesswoman, won't affect anywhere else besides NY.
REPEAT, this ONLY pertains to NY.

Wait until Feinsteen ,Boxer and ,Pelosi hear about this. The California Commies will be all over it

[DeadManWalking]

Originally Posted by nogods

are you suggesting that most Texans are ignoring Texas law and are carrying firearms that require permits without permits?

Yeah, right.

It might hurt Texans' image, but outside of New York City, NY State has a much higher percentage of citizens with handgun permits.

You don't need a permit to own a long gun in New York.

Don't you guys have to register your firearms also?

[ladder13]

Thanks nogods, I love it when the truth comes out. Btw, no NYer I know has 1 gun only. I know a guy who got his CCW about a year ago, he currently owns over 40 handguns.
In fairness, the article was from 2004, so things could possibly have changed. Nontheless, there's plenty of gun owners here, with multiple weapons.
If we could just flush NYC into the Atlantic, we'd have it good.

[DeadManWalking]

Originally Posted by johngalt

Are those permits to CARRY a handgun, or permits to OWN a handgun? Texas, along with most states, don't require permits of any kind to OWN, unlike NY, therefor no need for the permits.

Anyway, I always read Indiana had the highest CCW/population rate.

"Getting a handgun legally in New York is a two-step process. First, applicants must obtain a license, which costs $340, takes about 12 weeks to process, is good for three years and requires a background check by the New York Police Department. In addition, fingerprinting costs about $100.

Those who pass that hurdle then must get a purchase authorization from the police for the particular weapon they intend to buy. One handgun license may list up to 25 weapons (so far, no one has tried to register more than that, officials said), but buyers must wait 90 days between purchases."

Dang, here in WA it cost $35.00 bucks and takes about 3 weeks to get your CCW permit Plus, you don't have to register anything ever!!! PURCHASE AUTHORIZATION? LOL!!! Here to purchase any weapon, be it a pistol or a long gun with a CCW permit, you just fill out the back ground check, pay for your purchase and be on your way.

More CCW per populace? Possibly, but I prefer OUR way. And 90 days between purchases? Heck, I could buy at least one a day if I wanted.

How about private sales in New York, do you have to fill out paper work and get the state involved?

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by DeadManWalking

"Getting a handgun legally in New York is a two-step process. First, applicants must obtain a license, which costs $340, takes about 12 weeks to process, is good for three years and requires a background check by the New York Police Department. In addition, fingerprinting costs about $100.

Those who pass that hurdle then must get a purchase authorization from the police for the particular weapon they intend to buy. One handgun license may list up to 25 weapons (so far, no one has tried to register more than that, officials said), but buyers must wait 90 days between purchases."

Dang, here in WA it cost $35.00 bucks and takes about 3 weeks to get your CCW permit Plus, you don't have to register anything ever!!! PURCHASE AUTHORIZATION? LOL!!! Here to purchase any weapon, be it a pistol or a long gun with a CCW permit, you just fill out the back ground check, pay for your purchase and be on your way.

More CCW per populace? Possibly, but I prefer OUR way. And 90 days between purchases? Heck, I could buy at least one a day if I wanted.

How about private sales in New York, do you have to fill out paper work and get the state involved?

Just like most , you confuse NYC with the rest of the State.

Too bad YOU don't live in Arizona or Vermont or Alaska, you wouldn't need a ccw license

Oh btw, I can carry in a bar, can you?

My license is for life, is yours? Edited: Oh nevermind, every 5 years some beaurocrat gives the ok, got it.

Sounds like some INFRINGEMENTS going on up there.

[nogods]

Originally Posted by DeadManWalking

"
Dang, here in WA it cost $35.00 bucks and takes about 3 weeks to get your CCW permit Plus, you don't have to register anything ever!!! PURCHASE AUTHORIZATION? LOL!!! Here to purchase any weapon, be it a pistol or a long gun with a CCW permit, you just fill out the back ground check, pay for your purchase and be on your way.

More CCW per populace? Possibly, but I prefer OUR way. And 90 days between purchases? Heck, I could buy at least one a day if I wanted.

How about private sales in New York, do you have to fill out paper work and get the state involved?

I don't know where that information on NY came from but it is totally inaccurate.

Once again, approximately 10% of the upstate New York population has concealed carry permits, despite the hoops they might have to go through to obtain them (which are nothing like what was posted.)

In the state of Washington, with one of the least intrusive concealed carry permit laws, only 4.5% of the population is authorized to carry concealed.

If I'm a thug looking for easy marks on the streets, I'm going to move out of upstate NY and move to the state of Washington. 1 out of 10 people I try to mug in upstate NY will be armed. Less than 1 out of 20 people in Washington will be armed. Much easier pickings.

[amplifryer]

Originally Posted by oldman45

I am old enough to look at things from a different view based on experience.

I do not see the interest in hunting in today's youth. There are fewer hunting license being sold today than 20 years ago. It is possible there are valid reasons for this like the shortage of hunting lands, the increased cost of hunting and the shortage of mentors for the young hunters. Whatever the reason, there are fewer hunters. Fewer hunters means those growing up today does not care about gun rights or the related areas.

I see fewer gun lovers today. The older generation, say from 40 upward, enjoys their guns. The younger generation looks at guns totally different. Most are not active shooters. Many more are banned from being around guns. Hollywood has changed the view of guns by the young.

All this is going to reduce the interest in guns and the NRA each year. In a few short decades, gun owners will be in a minority in my opinion.

A person owning one gun for home defense will not be as concerned with gun laws or gun rights as someone with 10 or more guns. A person that has to travel 50 miles to locate a place to shoot is not going to be shooting often and will not be concerned with gun rights. The lack of open hunting land will decrease the number of those with shotguns, rifles and such.

Those we see today, the younger groups, are going after the AR, AK, black plastic guns and not the true quality workmanship guns that we enjoy today. Those inheriting guns from grandpa today are not as excited over the gun as was grandpa when he got it.

I have two daughters left. One is 45 and one is 30. The eldest is not into guns at all. Neither is her husband. They do not allow guns in their home. Nor will they ever be in the NRA or support gun rights but both are conservative Republicans.

My youngest daughter was a very active shooter as a pre teen and a tenager. Today she shoots very seldom. The men she has dated are not interested in guns. The few I have met when she would bring them buy were more interested in my old convertibles than sitting in the gun room and knew almost zero about guns. I have a fortune in guns here and there is nobody that cares about them after I am gone. I asked my daughter if she knew what one of my guns was worth and she replied, $200?" It is worth a few thousand. Youth today do not care about guns, quality, value or rights.

Is this the way of the future? Can we save the future for our grandchildren?

We now bring our kids up in the urban areas where shooting, livestock and other things are not possible Horseback riding and shooting are things most youngsters will not know, if for no other reason than we "oldtimers" have moved away from our roots and not giving the kids the same advantages we had.

I am afraid the NRA is going to be effected by our actions in years to come.

Ok, off my rant now.

That's a sad and interesting perspective. I've got two sons who I'm sure will be grateful and nostalgic about inheriting my gear and I've thought about who will get what on several occasions. One is in N. California, doesn't have a gun in his home and is limited by their oppressive laws about what he is allowed to own. But he loved hunting when he was a teenager in GA. He had a job after school caping deer at a local processor during hunting season and said he'd like to take it up again on a recent visit. My younger boy lives in an old, restored home in the downtown area of Columbus, GA and doesn't care anything about hunting but spends a lot of time at the range and takes personal/home defense seriously. He's closest to the family home (about sixty miles away) and the only one who knows where the key to the safe is but I expect that he'll be fair about it when the time comes. I'd like to be there to see how it goes ... ha! Of course, if I was, nobody would be getting any of my stuff!

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by DeadManWalking

Don't you guys have to register your firearms also?

Long guns, no. Handguns, yes. Isn't a 4473 a form of registration? Doesn't the FBI and other law enforcement use 4473's to trace guns? The only guns not "registered" would be private sales.

[DeadManWalking]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Just like most , you confuse NYC with the rest of the State.

Too bad YOU don't live in Arizona or Vermont or Alaska, you wouldn't need a ccw license

Oh btw, I can carry in a bar, can you?

My license is for life, is yours? Edited: Oh nevermind, every 5 years some beaurocrat gives the ok, got it.

Sounds like some INFRINGEMENTS going on up there.

ladder13, yes the article was for NYC and not NY state, my bad. How many of those rules apply to NY'ers out of the city? Is it really that restrictive?

nogods, the article I quoted can be found at;

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/nyregion/20guns.html

You want to call it inaccurate . . . knock you self out.

No, FBI back ground checks are not gun registration in the same sense that gun registration is used in this article (NYC). Here you purchase a gun and that is the end of the registration, you could sell it the next day to someone without every filling out any paper work.

And why would I want to carry in a bar, better yet if I feel I need a hand gun in a bar common sense would tell me long before I got there that a bar is not where I want to be. Learned long ago that firearms and alcohol are to be NEVER mixed. So yes, I'd buy into that as an infringement.

My take on CCW, it is unconstitutional in ANY state, free men should not have to ask states for the pleasure of exercising our RIGHTS! Rights are owned by man, not granted by governments.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by DeadManWalking

...

And why would I want to carry in a bar, better yet if I feel I need a hand gun in a bar common sense would tell me long before I got there that a bar is not where I want to be. Learned long ago that firearms and alcohol are to be NEVER mixed. So yes, I'd buy into that as an infringement. ...

Why NOT carry in a bar? Seriously, I have been CCW for 35+ years and have carried whilst in barrooms regularly over those years. Just last night, for example. And surely tonight.

If one is mature and responsible enough to CCW they should be mature and responsible enough to carry in a barroom. Obviously, I am incorrect in my assessment of some people.

Be safe.

[nogods]

Originally Posted by DeadManWalking

nogods, the article I quoted can be found at;

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/nyregion/20guns.html

You want to call it inaccurate . . . knock you self out.

The article is about New York City, not New York State. NY city has 306 square miles. Upstate NY consists of 56,250 square miles.

In New York State we don't prohibit concealed carry in places serving alcohol. You can take your weapon into a bar or restaurant or to an outdoor event in which alcohol is served. We don't feel adults who have qualified for a concealed carry permit need to me micromanaged. We expect them to act responsibly.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by DeadManWalking

And why would I want to carry in a bar, better yet if I feel I need a hand gun in a bar common sense would tell me long before I got there that a bar is not where I want to be.

Do you need a handgun in Walmart ? The farmers market? The dentist? At the movies? I guess you don't want to be at any of these places either.
Bars in NY serve some of the best food around. I don't even drink, but do frequent bars for burgers and sandwiches. The best burger I ever had was from this place
http://www.yelp.com/biz/pipers-kilt-inc-eastchester

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by DeadManWalking

No, FBI back ground checks are not gun registration in the same sense that gun registration is used in this article (NYC). Here you purchase a gun and that is the end of the registration, you could sell it the next day to someone without every filling out any paper work.

No they aren't, BUT......
have that firearm show up at murder scene and see how quickly LE knocks on your(the last known owners') door.

[amplifryer]

Originally Posted by ladder13

No they aren't, BUT......
have that firearm show up at murder scene and see how quickly LE knocks on your(the last known owners') door.

I bought a new firearm recently (Ruger P95), the first brand-new gun that I have purchased in years. I thought it was cool that there was a shell casing in a little manila envelope inside the plastic box with the date of the test firing. Then my FFL dealer that did the transfer told me that the business end of the bullet was sent to the ATF and scanned into a ballistics database. I guess that's okay with me because I don't intend to use it in the commission of a crime but, man, it really makes you think about security and the implications of selling a gun or having it stolen.

[Snowbandit]

Originally Posted by amplifryer

I bought a new firearm recently (Ruger P95), the first brand-new gun that I have purchased in years. I thought it was cool that there was a shell casing in a little manila envelope inside the plastic box with the date of the test firing. Then my FFL dealer that did the transfer told me that the business end of the bullet was sent to the ATF and scanned into a ballistics database. I guess that's okay with me because I don't intend to use it in the commission of a crime but, man, it really makes you think about security and the implications of selling a gun or having it stolen.

Either you misunderstood or your dealer is an idiot. No bullets are sent to ATF. The fired case is included with the new guns for the states that require you to include one with the guns registration.

[oldman45]

Originally Posted by ladder13

No they aren't, BUT......
have that firearm show up at murder scene and see how quickly LE knocks on your(the last known owners') door.

Nope, not from the background check.

The gun maker sells a gun with a serial number to a distributor. That distributor sells it to a dealer. The dealer sells it to you. Then the dealer has to keep the paperwork for ever. The gun is traced to the dealer, not to the person. The dealer has to prove who the gun was sold to and when.

If a dealer goes out of business, the company taking over the business gets to keep all the paperwork on former sales. If there is no takeover business, all the paperwork goes to the Atty Gen of that state for storage and not the ATF as some sources claim.

The Feds have only a few months that they can retain the papers on gun purchases. I believe it is limited to 90 days but cannot find my manual on that.

[amplifryer]

Originally Posted by Snowbandit

Either you misunderstood or your dealer is an idiot. No bullets are sent to ATF. The fired case is included with the new guns for the states that require you to include one with the guns registration.

I'll concede that I may have misunderstood before I'd call the man an idiot, or let anybody else call him one, either. Kinda harsh.

[Gunfighter9]

It's funny but I actually got into a discussion between classes with some farm boy from rural NE. We had touched on the topic of CCW in class and he spoke to me after class as well. To make a long conversation short, he was under the impression that only "hunters" had any business handling guns because us "city folk" didn't hunt. This is just concrete evidence of the rift between gun owners. The problem is that liberals will use this rift to divide and conquer. A united front is much harder to attack than two "allies" battling it out. I don't personally care about hunting primarily because I have never had anyone there to teach me anything about it. However, I have no problems with those who hunt. Of course, on the flip side there are plenty of hunters who would bash me because I own firearms solely for defense. Seems like both sides need to realize that we are all in danger from a common enemy.