Right to carry (guns outside home) will be history!

[df53141]

Justices decline N.Y. case restricting guns in public

>>
The Supreme Court on Monday declined to consider whether the Second Amendment protects the right to carry a gun outside the home.
>>>

Read this:
"It's only a matter of time before the court decides whether people have a right to carry guns in public," says Adam Winkler, a UCLA law professor and author of Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America. "This is the biggest unanswered question about the Second Amendment."

[df53141]

Can someone explain the past history of owning and carrying guns in the 50's and 60's, even the 70's? Can you get AR-15 semi? how about automatic? Can you get CCW? how about open carry? Did you need permit to buy pistol in NYS, NJ, IL, back then? I understand between 1968 and 1986, there were restrictions on ammo purchase! But gun law was much less restricted back then, am I right?

According to Bloomberg: In 1981, just three states -- Maine, Washington and Vermont -- let typical residents carry firearms in public without giving a reason. Today, about 40 states do.
Is this true?
New York Gun Limits Intact as High Court Rejects Appeal - Bloomberg

[dougb1946]

The SCOTUS just said it's a states rights issue. You vote for state reps. Talk to them. Write to them. Frequently. Vote.

[df53141]

Originally Posted by dougb1946

The SCOTUS just said it's a states rights issue. You vote for state reps. Talk to them. Write to them. Frequently. Vote.

This won't work, these states want to bring more freeloaders in so more people would vote democrats. I will never go to NYS and spend a penny on NYS unless absolutely necessary! Anyone who gets shot in public in NYS should sue the state for not protecting them because residents are not allowed to protect themselves!!!!

[HeyJoe]

big disappointment for residents in may issue states. even in current shall issue states, that right remains subject to the whim of shifting political tides.

[gm272gs]

When I was 10 years old, I used to carry my .22 single-shot bolt-action rifle to school and put it in a gun rack in the Principal's office, next to 5 or 6 others which belonged to my friends. All of these kids had 4 or 5 years of rifle shooting to their credit, and were taught safety first.

After school, we would pick up our rifles and walk to the dump to shoot rats. It was great fun, and the owner of the dump appreciated us taking care of the problem. We honed our hunting skills, everyone was a winner, and no one ever shot up the school or held up a liquor store.

Can you imagine a kid walking down the street with a rifle on a sling, these days? Hoo boy!

[66Park]

Originally Posted by df53141

According to Bloomberg: In 1981, just three states -- Maine, Washington and Vermont -- let typical residents carry firearms in public without giving a reason. Today, about 40 states do.
Is this true?
New York Gun Limits Intact as High Court Rejects Appeal - Bloomberg

No, that is not true. I don't know all the states, but I lived in Georgia in 1981 and got a concealed carry permit. I didn't have to give any reason whatsoever. I had to submit to a background check and be fingerprinted, and then they gave me the license.

[VMaxSplat]

Originally Posted by HeyJoe

big disappointment for residents in may issue states. even in current shall issue states, that right remains subject to the whim of shifting political tides.

No sir! That is not correct.

"The right of the people to keep AND bear arms shall not be infringed". Several SCOTUS rulings have already upheld the obviously worded 2nd Amendment.

[HeyJoe]

Originally Posted by VMaxSplat

No sir! That is not correct.

"The right of the people to keep AND bear arms shall not be infringed". Several SCOTUS rulings have already upheld the obviously worded 2nd Amendment.

read the article again. by not taking the case they have let may issue stand.

[Xtasy]

I don't understand how open carry can be illegal in my state of Florida

[Buffalohunter60]

Originally Posted by df53141

Can someone explain the past history of owning and carrying guns in the 50's and 60's, even the 70's? Can you get AR-15 semi? how about automatic? Can you get CCW? how about open carry? Did you need permit to buy pistol in NYS, NJ, IL, back then? I understand between 1968 and 1986, there were restrictions on ammo purchase! But gun law was much less restricted back then, am I right?

According to Bloomberg: In 1981, just three states -- Maine, Washington and Vermont -- let typical residents carry firearms in public without giving a reason. Today, about 40 states do.
Is this true?
New York Gun Limits Intact as High Court Rejects Appeal - Bloomberg

I have lived in Nh for the biggest part of my life....and have always had firearms...rifles, pistols and shot guns. I have always lived in the country and have always carried openly when ever I wanted to with no problem. You could not carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle but could get a permit to carry a loaded handgun....never a problem to get a permit. I never open carried in town because I never felt I had a need to do that...and you are not allowed to discharge a firearm within the city limits (for obvious reasons) Firearms have never been a problem in NH and most of the people there own guns. We could own semi automatics....I believe you could get a fully automatic by paying $200 and getting the correct paper work. Never owned one as they suck up too much ammo.

[SMSgt]

I've spent a small fortune on tin foil since November.

[SMSgt]

Originally Posted by Xtasy

I don't understand how open carry can be illegal in my state of Florida

Simple--it's not, it's only very restricted, but in turn the state is very liberal in its issuing of CWFLs.

[Nicksterdemus]

"This won't work, these states want to bring more freeloaders in so more people would vote democrats."

Sweet weepin' Hey-Zeus on the cross it's Jesse Ventura hot on the trail of another conspiracy theory.

Don't give up 'till you make 'em tap-out and demand a five count unless it's a lumberjack or steel cage match.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by df53141

According to Bloomberg: In 1981, just three states -- Maine, Washington and Vermont -- let typical residents carry firearms in public without giving a reason. Today, about 40 states do.
Is this true?

I believe what the Mayor is referring to is the sweep of Shall Issue across America regarding concealed carry permits. Here is an animated map. Notice that in the 80s the majority of states were either "No Issue" of "May Issue". No Issue is self explanatory. May Issue generally means at the discretion of the local authorities. In some states and locales May Issue could mean near impossible to get a permit or very easy. Now most all states are Shall Issue.

Radical Gun Nuttery!

[James&theGiant1911]

Originally Posted by df53141

Can someone explain the past history of owning and carrying guns in the 50's and 60's, even the 70's? Can you get AR-15 semi? how about automatic? Can you get CCW? how about open carry? Did you need permit to buy pistol in NYS, NJ, IL, back then? I understand between 1968 and 1986, there were restrictions on ammo purchase! But gun law was much less restricted back then, am I right?

According to Bloomberg: In 1981, just three states -- Maine, Washington and Vermont -- let typical residents carry firearms in public without giving a reason. Today, about 40 states do.
Is this true?
New York Gun Limits Intact as High Court Rejects Appeal - Bloomberg

You have a lot of people through the depression era using Shotguns for food and handguns were a luxury item found within the major cities although some made in mainly rifles and shotguns. Do not know about ARs but they used a lot of Tommy sub machine guns back then and they packed quite a wallop. I still have some of the great examples of firearms that were available through mail order. All you needed was a Sears or Montgomery Ward catalog and you could order some great guns made by Fox BSE, Stephens and Thompson firearms just to name a few. It was not really all about the money back then so I guess if you were a felon it was do not ask do not tell. Some states allow open carry even today but many states especially those with a history of hunting require specific licenses and dates that you can do that with.

None of us, especially over the age of 30 have ever seen restrictions on gun control nor the type of environment we leave in these days. Before, we took a stance of isolationism and maybe that is what we are paying for today cause we have a lot of people who hate us. These people will not be happy until they see America fall and I never thought it would be in our lifetimes but we could be wrong. It could be in the next 5 years.

[Nicksterdemus]

" ... so I guess if you were a felon it was do not ask do not tell."

That seems to be the way it's handled here on felons hunting.

Andy Boyle ? Felons hunting with guns slip past state law

[Buffalohunter60]

Thats another thing that needs to be looked at...if the man is not a violent felon and he served his time...should he be penilized the rest of his life for a non-violent crime that he has paid his debt to society for? I would rather see him hunting and enjoying life than back down the wrong road...just my opinion. Remember...there are too many innocent people that have gone to jail.....and it does not take much to lose your right to have a firearm...have a GF or wife lie about what happened between you...and you will no longer have a firearm.......it needs to be looked at closer.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by df53141

Can someone explain the past history of owning and carrying guns in the 50's and 60's, even the 70's? Can you get AR-15 semi? how about automatic? Can you get CCW? how about open carry? Did you need permit to buy pistol in NYS, NJ, IL, back then? I understand between 1968 and 1986, there were restrictions on ammo purchase! But gun law was much less restricted back then, am I right?

According to Bloomberg: In 1981, just three states -- Maine, Washington and Vermont -- let typical residents carry firearms in public without giving a reason. Today, about 40 states do.
Is this true?
New York Gun Limits Intact as High Court Rejects Appeal - Bloomberg

I don't know what it was like in those eastern states. Where I grew up even as a kid I carried my .22 rifle all over the country side plinking cans, and down to local creeks plinking turtles and gar, As a 10 year old I could go to the local hardware store and buy 22s. Of course I grew up in a small farming community, not a big city. I even bought a rifle through the mail when I was 14. This was all during the mid to late 1950s. As I recall, the gun laws came about in the mid to late 1960s after the Kennedy assignations. The assignations were the excuses for the anti-gun laws.

[HereSinceTheLongHunters]

Guns weren't an issue back then... that was the section of the Monkey Ward and Sears catalog you always looked at... they were available at almost every hardware and sporting goods store. You could carry a rifle down the street no problem. Most guys were proud of their collections and displayed them prominently. The proliferation of hand guns vs. rifles was probably a part the change along with the decline of the WWII generation (Lordy I miss them, they'd have taken care of business by now) and less outdoor/country life....

[adwjc]

There is a lot of controversy about this case and this "non decision" by the Supreme Court.

This case was not about the new "SAFE Act."

It was brought by residents of a county where restrictions (to show cause) were put in place by the "Issuing Authority" for applicants for a pistol license. Their county differs from others in the fact that they won't even issue the license.

Every county in NY is different, they interpret the law and add restrictions as they please. In my county, most licenses are issued with a "Hunting -Target" restriction, which means the license holder does NOT have a "full carry."

Some counties, such as the 5 boroughs of NYC, have different again, and they (NYC) don't recognize licenses from counties outside of NYC.

Aside from the "Carrying" aspect, you have to obtain a pistol license to purchase and hold a handgun in this state, even if you want to keep it in your residence or carry it unloaded, cased, to a range.

[Silver Dollar]

Originally Posted by df53141

This won't work, these states want to bring more freeloaders in so more people would vote democrats. I will never go to NYS and spend a penny on NYS unless absolutely necessary! Anyone who gets shot in public in NYS should sue the state for not protecting them because residents are not allowed to protect themselves!!!!

Now what Romney said about the 47% makes sense.

[rwsmith]

Originally Posted by df53141

Can someone explain the past history of owning and carrying guns in the 50's and 60's, even the 70's? Can you get AR-15 semi? how about automatic? Can you get CCW? how about open carry? Did you need permit to buy pistol in NYS, NJ, IL, back then? I understand between 1968 and 1986, there were restrictions on ammo purchase! But gun law was much less restricted back then, am I right?

I remember in a heck of a lot of old B&W movies (so it has to be true, right?) that the police would pick up somebody for something, find out they had a gun and ask, "Do you have a permit for that gun?"

Or the cops would say, "This guy has a gun!" and the suspect would yell back, "Yeah, and I've got a permit for it, Copper!"

[df53141]

Originally Posted by adwjc

There is a lot of controversy about this case and this "non decision" by the Supreme Court.

This case was not about the new "SAFE Act."

It was brought by residents of a county where restrictions (to show cause) were put in place by the "Issuing Authority" for applicants for a pistol license. Their county differs from others in the fact that they won't even issue the license.

Every county in NY is different, they interpret the law and add restrictions as they please. In my county, most licenses are issued with a "Hunting -Target" restriction, which means the license holder does NOT have a "full carry."

Some counties, such as the 5 boroughs of NYC, have different again, and they (NYC) don't recognize licenses from counties outside of NYC.

Aside from the "Carrying" aspect, you have to obtain a pistol license to purchase and hold a handgun in this state, even if you want to keep it in your residence or carry it unloaded, cased, to a range.

>>> The exact reason why we should not trust government or Obama, when they have too much power, they are behaving like dictators. In Tompkins county, you have to suck up to the local judge, who would BS you for 2 h, and then you get a little frustrated, and he can deny you because he can deny for no reason!!! It is in Ithaca, NY that I changed from pro-democrat to staunch democrat-hater!!!!

>>> In an ideal situation where government truly respects the law and sincerely represents the people, I am OK with certain regulations (these regulations are designed for public safety, not intended to harass/disarm the people), but the political polarization and divisive politics drove the democrats into Joseph-Stalin style authoritarian plutocracy. IMHO Swiss is a real democracy and their people are generally happier and more prosperous than the USA, they definitely have more restrictions, but I am much less hostile to their gun-control.

[Buffalohunter60]

Folks...take a look at the Second Amendment Foundation...they have already beat this in several states and I bet they will take up this challange. Mightb pay to drop them a line.

[Steve in Vermont]

Originally Posted by SMSgt

I've spent a small fortune on tin foil since November.

THAT explains the shortage of tin foil. I wondered why the shelves at my local grocery store were empty. The manager told me it would be at least Sept. before supplies returned to normal.

[Silver Dollar]

Originally Posted by Steve in Vermont

THAT explains the shortage of tin foil. I wondered why the shelves at my local grocery store were empty. The manager told me it would be at least Sept. before supplies returned to normal.

I got some tin foil on the tin foil black market. It's expensive but it's the real thing. If anyone needs some, I'll sell it to you without a background check.

[riderrick65]

Not to get off the topic, but I don't understand some of the comments about Tin Foil? What is that all about?

[James&theGiant1911]

Originally Posted by riderrick65

Not to get off the topic, but I don't understand some of the comments about Tin Foil? What is that all about?

you ever seen the movie Signs? It has to do with the sky falling protection from the ever loving mind control waves being beamed out over the nation to get rid of our guns. It is kind of cool, I want to make one as well and see if they work.

[gm272gs]

Come on you guys, Tin Foil hasn't been around since 1910.

EVERYONE knows that Aluminum Foil is the stuff to use to jam the signals the gubmint is beaming at us. Yeesh!

[Steve in Vermont]

Originally Posted by gm272gs

Come on you guys, Tin Foil hasn't been around since 1910.

EVERYONE knows that Aluminum Foil is the stuff to use to jam the signals the gubmint is beaming at us. Yeesh!

NOW you tell us.

[Buffalohunter60]

Originally Posted by df53141

>>> The exact reason why we should not trust government or Obama, when they have too much power, they are behaving like dictators. In Tompkins county, you have to suck up to the local judge, who would BS you for 2 h, and then you get a little frustrated, and he can deny you because he can deny for no reason!!! It is in Ithaca, NY that I changed from pro-democrat to staunch democrat-hater!!!!

>>> In an ideal situation where government truly respects the law and sincerely represents the people, I am OK with certain regulations (these regulations are designed for public safety, not intended to harass/disarm the people), but the political polarization and divisive politics drove the democrats into Joseph-Stalin style authoritarian plutocracy. IMHO Swiss is a real democracy and their people are generally happier and more prosperous than the USA, they definitely have more restrictions, but I am much less hostile to their gun-control.

Hang in there DF....this battle has just started...this gun grab has waken up the sleeping giant like never before. Timngs that they may have gotten away with before...will be challenged like they have never seen before. they under estimate the will and determination of the American People. I for one am glad they choose to do this now and not on my childrens watch. This is a battle we can fight and win...surrender is not an option. Every Unconstitutional "dream" they try to pass will be challanged and shot down. Think of this as shooting skeet, they fire a pigeon...and we will shoot it down. He who quits first...loses...and we will not quit ever. This country has problems beyond the second amendment but I can't discuss that here.

[df53141]

Several senators (up for reelection) supported the amendment, the lady from NC, the lady from LA, the fellow from MN, so they will get justice next year!!! Still reading the result as of 4:23PM

[Buffalohunter60]

I am ashamed to say the senator Shaheen from NH voted for the bill, I all ready notified her that she has lost my support and I wil do everythi g i can to see she does not get re-elected. She supported the party .....when she needed to support "The People"
I doubt they are done...keep setting em up...and we will keep knocking em down. This battle has just started but we will not be the ones to quit.

[Silver Dollar]

They stated that 90% of the American people want these expanded background checks they were pushing. How many of you have been polled. I don't remember anybody asking me what I thought about it. I watched some of the aftermath discussions on one of the public TV channels. It seems that the Dems keep complaining that those who voted against the amendments were not following what their constituents wanted because they're afraid they won't be reelected. Now re read that last sentence over several times and tell me if that makes sense. It's obvious to me if they DON'T do what the constituents want, they'll be voted out of office and will not be re elected. What the hell are these Dems smoking?

[df53141]

Originally Posted by Buffalohunter60

Hang in there DF....this battle has just started...this gun grab has waken up the sleeping giant like never before. Timngs that they may have gotten away with before...will be challenged like they have never seen before. they under estimate the will and determination of the American People. I for one am glad they choose to do this now and not on my childrens watch. This is a battle we can fight and win...surrender is not an option. Every Unconstitutional "dream" they try to pass will be challanged and shot down. Think of this as shooting skeet, they fire a pigeon...and we will shoot it down. He who quits first...loses...and we will not quit ever. This country has problems beyond the second amendment but I can't discuss that here.

To a certain degree, Cuomo has been our "ally" , because it reminds us how vicious gun grabbers can become, that prompted swift actions from NRA, etc, which eventually repelled gun grabbers.

I also think gun owners need to look at yourself, because no matter what, there are many people who are not comfortable seeing guns, we definitely don't want to appear to be ring-wing gunuts who want to see guns everywhere, I support getting rid off gun-free zone laws, yet I oppose open carry (demonstration against gun grubber is an exception), or forcing employee to allow you bring gun to parking lot, etc. Folks who get caught open carry would be subject to a fine or worse, gun confiscation, no jailtime except for known criminals.

We also need to communicate better with non gun owners, explain 2A to them etc. Remember, your everyday behavior (while carry guns) influences public opinion of gun owner in a subtle way!!!

[Buffalohunter60]

Df where I live in NH (when I am not in NZ) open carry is no big deal. I carry my rifle if I am going hunting and using the Motorcycle. I do not open carry in any town or city...and I would prefer Concealed carry because it does not intimidate people that have a fear of firearms (and many do) I am not intimidated by someone carrying a gun...most of my friends hunt, and target practice. Shooting is like breathing for some of us...just a natural thing to do. In the military...everyone carried and it was just part of your gear as much as wearing a hat....if you were unarmed, you would look our of place. I try to use common sence....something that seems to be lacking today.

[df53141]

Originally Posted by Buffalohunter60

Df where I live in NH (when I am not in NZ) open carry is no big deal. I carry my rifle if I am going hunting and using the Motorcycle. I do not open carry in any town or city...and I would prefer Concealed carry because it does not intimidate people that have a fear of firearms (and many do) I am not intimidated by someone carrying a gun...most of my friends hunt, and target practice. Shooting is like breathing for some of us...just a natural thing to do. In the military...everyone carried and it was just part of your gear as much as wearing a hat....if you were unarmed, you would look our of place. I try to use common sence....something that seems to be lacking today.

Sounds very reasonable to me!

[Silver Dollar]

Originally Posted by df53141

To a certain degree, Cuomo has been our "ally" , because it reminds us how vicious gun grabbers can become, that prompted swift actions from NRA, etc, which eventually repelled gun grabbers.

I also think gun owners need to look at yourself, because no matter what, there are many people who are not comfortable seeing guns, we definitely don't want to appear to be ring-wing gunuts who want to see guns everywhere, I support getting rid off gun-free zone laws, yet I oppose open carry (demonstration against gun grubber is an exception), or forcing employee to allow you bring gun to parking lot, etc. Folks who get caught open carry would be subject to a fine or worse, gun confiscation, no jailtime except for known criminals.

We also need to communicate better with non gun owners, explain 2A to them etc. Remember, your everyday behavior (while carry guns) influences public opinion of gun owner in a subtle way!!!

I agree here. I oppose open carry also except in cases where a shirt accidentally blows open. I try desperately not to let that happen. I think open carry sends a bad message to the average non gun person that we have a violent, irresponsible streak in us and can give the criminal a target where your gun can get grabbed from you. The public's first thought would be "Why would you need to carry a gun unless you're law enforcement?". Of course there is a number of great answers to this question but the non gun owner never really thinks of that. Like DF said, we have to show the public that we're definitely law abiding citizens who don't want to cause trouble and who they don't have to fear.

[Nedroe]

issued by the state of Indiana since I graduated high school in 1977. You used to have to write a letter to the head of the ISP stating why you felt you needed a concealed carry permit. Life had been threatened, work late shift in a bad neighborhood, carried company payroll, traveled in some bad areas, to name a few.

Prior to GCA'68 you could get almost anything mail ordered to your door. I used to get all kinds of neat stuff from the Shotgun News. Bought my first handgun when I was nine years old at a gunshow in Booneville. A used Smith 19, 4" After GCA '68, I had to wait until I turned 21. The very next day after my birthday, I bought a NIB S&W 27-2, 3-1/2, w/ presentation case.

Ned

[df53141]

If we could get FBI/ATF out of NCIS, that would be cool, I strongly support background check if it is NOT in the hand of government. We gun owners do have a moral obligation to help law enforcement fight criminals. Of course the current system can be abused, that is why I would insist NCIS check if I sell my gun, but why no senator propose an amendment to privatize NCIS background? I don't mind paying a fee. Of course transactions between friends/relatives should be exception to this rule!

I love old stories, can you guys post more here? Can you easily buy semi-rifle with 30-round magazine before 1968? How about submachine gun? any limitation on ammo purchase?

[Jeffersonwasright]

Originally Posted by Buffalohunter60

This country has problems beyond the second amendment

I've been visiting and studying SE Asia since the mid '90s. It is evident to me that we are witnessing the end of Western civilization as the dominant world power. What's coming our way during the next 10-30 years will be very ugly.

[Buffalohunter60]

Originally Posted by Jeffersonwasright

I've been visiting and studying SE Asia since the mid '90s. It is evident to me that we are witnessing the end of Western civilization as the dominant world power. What's coming our way during the next 10-30 years will be very ugly.

personally...I dont think it will take that long.