Ignorance Is No Excuse

[keith44spl]

This is 'Messed Up' as one newsie would say,

DPS Troopers arrest three men for open carry of pre 1899 pistols...

Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 ? Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO) | Texas GOP Vote

Sad day for the Texas Dept. of Public Safety.......

Ignorance of the law is no excuse....IMHO

I don't know what else to say.....Other than that,
Both sides of this issue ought to know their obligations before wadin in to turbulent muddy waters.
Ya just can't make a wrong, into a right, no matter how ya try to spin it.

.

[S&W45Colt]

You are right, that's a shame. Everyone's embarrassed now, plus the lawyers are going to get involved and that never makes things simpler. DPS in TX ought to know better, I could see it if that happened in NY, CA etc since they are known private gun haters.

[Bozz10mm]

The Troopers were probably aware of the law. They just couldn't verify the age of the pistols. And those 3 men.....what the heck were they thinking. You can't take weapons into the Capitol.

[mkk41]

Is it just me or does the Great State of Texas seem to be more anti-gun than this Yankee State of Taxes , Pennsylvania?

We are shall issue in regards to concealed carry licenses. Anyone so licensed can carry loaded & concealed in their vehicle and are not bound to notify LE.

We have no laws against 'open carry'.

We have no magazine capacity limits

We can have Class III machine guns.

We have preemption , no town/city/county can make any local gun laws that preempt the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act.

It is ILLEGAL for ANY law enforcement agency to maintain a registry of guns/owners.

[dswancutt]

Originally Posted by mkk41

Is it just me or does the Great State of Texas seem to be more anti-gun than this Yankee State of Taxes , Pennsylvania?

We are shall issue in regards to concealed carry licenses. Anyone so licensed can carry loaded & concealed in their vehicle and are not bound to notify LE.

We have no laws against 'open carry'.

We have no magazine capacity limits

We can have Class III machine guns.

We have preemption , no town/city/county can make any local gun laws that preempt the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act.

It is ILLEGAL for ANY law enforcement agency to maintain a registry of guns/owners.

I did a quick check and found out that open carry has been illegal since just after the civil war.

[keith44spl]

I hang my head in shame,

Not only for The State of Texas, the DPS, The Rangers and all the good folks of the Lone Star....

I know there are folks that want to exercise their rights...But they really ought to think it through first,
especial among-est all this controversy of late.


Oh, bicycle cops ought to wear their shorts a lit'l looser....
Them boys were wound purty tight on that video.

I just wish everyone could jest get a long.

.

[ringo1597]

This is what happens when agencies lower the hiring standards.

A young man or woman decides it is time to get a career type job. They never took High School seriously, they dropped out of school but later obtained a GED. Come on down you are now qualified to be a policeman.

This is just what my old agency has done.

[SMSgt]

Antique guns and their reproductions--by definition--are not firearms in FL unless used to commit a crime. So carrying one would fall outside any restrictions on carrying firearms.

[BaldEagle1313]

Keith, I understand your sentiment that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Any court will say the same thing. As gun owners/carriers, this applies double to us.

Not trying to make an excuse for the gentlemen in question, but reality is that laws now are so complex, convoluted, and contrary to each other that it's just about impossible to know all the various permutations. It isn't just ten of them on stone tablets anymore.

[redneckemt]

But what about the conversion kits for Black Powder pistols that allows them to fire centerfire rounds? Were the men arrested or detained until the Cops figured out what they were going to do?


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[DigiRebel]

Originally Posted by mkk41

Is it just me or does the Great State of Texas seem to be more anti-gun than this Yankee State of Taxes , Pennsylvania?

We are shall issue in regards to concealed carry licenses. Anyone so licensed can carry loaded & concealed in their vehicle and are not bound to notify LE.

We have no laws against 'open carry'.

We have no magazine capacity limits

We can have Class III machine guns.

We have preemption , no town/city/county can make any local gun laws that preempt the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act.

It is ILLEGAL for ANY law enforcement agency to maintain a registry of guns/owners.

And yet, we have both Casey and Toomey representing us in the US Senate... weird huh?

Pennsylvania is a great gun state... not quite Vermont now... but It's definitely better than our crummy neighbors NJ and MD...

[DigiRebel]

Originally Posted by dswancutt

I did a quick check and found out that open carry has been illegal since just after the civil war.

Where, exactly, did you do this check? Open carry has no laws forbidding it in Pennsylvania, and therefore it is defacto legal. The Police will likely bug you about it, but you are well within your legal right to carry in PA. The exception is in cities "of the first class" where a license to carry is required.

Openly Carrying a Firearm/Gun in Pennsylvania

[big&slow]

If ignorance of the law is no excuse. Everyone would be a lawyer.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by redneckemt

But what about the conversion kits for Black Powder pistols that allows them to fire centerfire rounds? Were the men arrested or detained until the Cops figured out what they were going to do?


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

I think there were already cartridge firearms before 1899...

So, what's your point thar?

.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by big&slow

If ignorance of the law is no excuse. Everyone would be a lawyer.

I think the sideshow here is....
The three were arrested for openly carrying a handgun/sidearm.

After the DPS officer's searched the 'book' to find the applicable statues/code,
it became aparent that that didn't apply in this instance,
so they were not going to un-arrest the three subjects....

They jest charge them with 'disorderly conduct/causing alarm with a gun' and figgered the court would straighten their mess out for them.

Which sadly happens purty often now in days, in a lot of different situations.


.

[raljr1]

Yeah, the courts sort it out later, but the guys who have to go thru the process are still out the time and money necessary to protect themselves....

[BPNovum]

Originally Posted by Bozz10mm

The Troopers were probably aware of the law. They just couldn't verify the age of the pistols. And those 3 men.....what the heck were they thinking. You can't take weapons into the Capitol.

They weren't carrying them into the Capitol. In Texas, however, you can take a handgun into the Capitol as long as it is concealed and you have a CHL.

These men were part of a protest group advocating open carry and were on the sidewalk outside of the capitol grounds.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by mkk41

Is it just me or does the Great State of Texas seem to be more anti-gun than this Yankee State of Taxes , Pennsylvania?

We are shall issue in regards to concealed carry licenses. Anyone so licensed can carry loaded & concealed in their vehicle and are not bound to notify LE.

We have no laws against 'open carry'.

We have no magazine capacity limits

We can have Class III machine guns.

We have preemption , no town/city/county can make any local gun laws that preempt the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act.

It is ILLEGAL for ANY law enforcement agency to maintain a registry of guns/owners.

Not to get off base too much, and apologies to Dave for the drift, but doesn't the PSP keep some sort of sales database of handgun sales? And aren't FTF handgun transfers between individuals required to go thru an FFL? Just asking for my own education.

[ladder13]

Kudo's to the onlookers questioning the police on their actions, it's good to see more and more of this, Americans unafraid to speak out in these type of occurances which seem to be more common.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Bozz10mm

The Troopers were probably aware of the law. They just couldn't verify the age of the pistols. And those 3 men.....what the heck were they thinking. You can't take weapons into the Capitol.

Check your Texas law. You certainly can take a pistol into the state capitol, if you have a CCL and the pistol is concealed. I do not believe Texas allows open carry of pistols/revolvers anywhere except on private property, a range, or when hunting.

[AZretired]

For a State that claims to be conservative and "Free", Texas sure has some stupid laws.

[Old TexMex]

Thank heavens for the delete button.
I'm SO glad nothing like this happens up north.http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/open-carry
I won't be open carrying in Philadelphia anytime soon, even though Penn is a totally gun friendly state. Seems there are some varied reports about the treatment of us there, too. Only by working together can we all overcome this silliness.

I'm with you there Dave, a mistake by a couple young troopers has shamed our state, and the detractors will line up to point fingers at the Lone Star State. We got big shoulders, bring it on.

As far as stupid laws, the men arrested didn't break the law, the young troopers didn't KNOW the law.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Old TexMex

Thank heavens for the delete button.
I'm SO glad nothing like this happens up north.Openly Carrying a Firearm/Gun in Pennsylvania
I won't be open carrying in Philadelphia anytime soon, even though Penn is a totally gun friendly state. Seems there are some varied reports about the treatment of us there, too. Only by working together can we all overcome this silliness.

I'm with you there Dave, a mistake by a couple young troopers has shamed our state, and the detractors will line up to point fingers at the Lone Star State. We got big shoulders, bring it on.

As far as stupid laws, the men arrested didn't break the law, the young troopers didn't KNOW the law.

People are quick to point fingers, as if where they live is perfection. Living in NY, I obviously see it all the time, then I point out the negativities in their state and they clam up.
If you're looking for heaven it isn't here on earth.

[keith44spl]

I'm camped in the Bluegrass state right now, will be back on the Red River next month.

The thing I found mostly, to my own amusement, one can see folks of all walks of life open carrying a sidearm in public places,
it doesn't cause any undue alarm, that I can see.

I think it's a traditional thing here, plus I haven't run into anyone that cares one way or the other.

In Louisville, Lexington it is frowned upon by the local constabulary.
In the Metroplex, Houston, and evidently Austin, open carrying is a serious matter and more than frowned upon, it's a violation of Texas law.

I said all of that, to say this....
'While one jurisdiction has no tolerance, another jurisdiction tolerates another's intolerance.'

As Baxter Black sez, "From out thar!"


Oh, by the way, I have personally arrested dangerous criminals, fugitives and killers,
never had to be overly aggressive or a bully about it, I never made it personal.

Why do some LEOs try to make a spectacle of a simple violation or misdemeanor, is beyond me.

I've worked with a few veteran officers that did not know anything about the juriditions firearms laws...
And didn't care, they jest tried to make em up as they went along.

I called one of them on an incident....One said "He didn't agree with the statutes!"

My reply was,"Write your legislator!"

.

[Retired LTC, USAR]

Originally Posted by keith44spl

I'm camped in the Bluegrass state right now, will be back on the Red River next month.


In Louisville, Lexington it is frowned upon by the local constabulary.
In the Metroplex, Houston, and evidently Austin, open carrying is a serious matter and more than frowned upon, it's a violation of Texas law.


.

I have seen a few individuals in Lexington open carry and never saw the police called...........Don't know why you think it is frowned upon???

[25elk]

My stepson recently was detained and escorted to his truck here in GA for openly wearing a pistol into Walmart late at night. Granted, this was stupid but he is still at an age where he has his rights and he knows the law. Fortunately he chose not to push the issue and locked the gun in a safe in his tool box while the officer watched. The next day he visited with the probate judge who is in charge of issuing CCL's here in GA and the officer and the entire local PD were ordered to re-training on the issue of open and concealed carry. I have no doubt that if he had protested in the least I would have been making that midnight drive downtown. There are many LEO's that are not aware of the constantly changing laws regarding firearms. Proceed with caution.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Retired LTC, USAR

I have seen a few individuals in Lexington open carry and never saw the police officers called...........Don't know why you think it is frowned upon???

Wells I tell ya,

I was in Frankfort at the KSP Headquarters for 'response to active shooter' training and a few of Jefferson County and Fayette County's police
were in attendance, some discouraging words were uttered by a few of those boys on the subject of the citizenry carrying sidearms openly and
a few seem to act like they felt somewhat threatened by the very thought of armed citizens....Can't figger that one out.

That was just my personal observations and first hand account of what is just a small
percentage of officers working those jurisdictions.

I felt that, they exhibited a air of superiority over the common folk that they were sworn to protect and serve....

But maybe that's just me, or I mis-understood their intent.

And even within the DOCJT which over sees the CCDW program
there are some *DOCJT Instructors, that are not necessarily pro gun by any means.

*Those instructors are the ones responsible for in-service training of LEOs

So, like I said, I saw both sides and have reached the age where I don't give a hoot what other folks do,
as long as I don't get caught in the crossfire.

Just think it's a shame for folks to get hassled for something of lit'l or of no consequence.


That is all........

.

Su Amigo,
Dave


.

[Old TexMex]

Originally Posted by keith44spl

I'm camped in the Bluegrass state right now, will be back on the Red River next month.
........
In the Metroplex, Houston, and evidently Austin, open carrying is a serious matter and more than frowned upon, it's a violation of Texas law.



.

Dave, don't forget Denton, Texas--- they're tryin' to turn that into another Austin(San Francisco).

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Old TexMex

Dave, don't forget Denton, Texas--- they're tryin' to turn that into another Austin(San Francisco).

Yup,

I don't know why those smart lawyers and politicians can't figger it out...

It's not what on a man's hip....It's what's in his heart that counts.


There are good men all among us....
Let them be counted and ready'd before the times that they might be needed.

As the words of that country song, "If you don't stand for something...You will fall for anything!"

These are peculiar times we're living in for sure.

.

[wbraswell]

For those of you who think that your state doesn't have stupid laws, I suggest you read up, before you start pointing fingers at Texas. We probably don't have as many stupid laws as we have stupid legislators. I will admit we did have 2 U.S. Presidents that weren't exactly Mensa material.

[poordevil]

Originally Posted by raljr1

Yeah, the courts sort it out later, but the guys who have to go thru the process are still out the time and money necessary to protect themselves....

and the stigma of having been arrested with the attendant explaining that goes along with it. So one has the right to do a thing, but gets bullied and harassed, arrested and made to be fearful so they don't do it again. So you have the right to do it.....but you better not, or else!

[redsox617]

My Dad was a MASS trooper and he used to say that all the time. He also said the LEO is not your friend and I have found that true more often than not. Sad to say most of us are caught betweencops and bad guys. Know your state laws, make NO statements, hire a FIREARMS lawyer and dont be intimidated. They want to close cases, and a 4 minute response time is ****