Gun show loophole?

[guitar1580]

Forgive me, but I have not been to a gun show. What is this "loophole" that I keep hearing about? I do know that pawn shops, dealers, etc. call the background check in over the phone. I've been told by friends that this process is no different at a gun show, but I keep hearing about this mysterious loophole.

Yes, I've heard of people making deals in the parking lot, but that really, to me, is no different than two neighbors, or two people anywhere making a cash deal. That really has nothing to do with the show.

I'm fairly sure that there would be a phone line available at most venues, so does the background check get phoned in, or not? Is there really a loophole, or is this just another talking point? Thanks in advance.

[arjay]

it's a talking point,some gun shows allow private sales( depending where you live) without a background check,but they eliminated that where I live about 20 years ago

[ChattanoogaPhil]

You walk into a gun show.

Table A is operated by a FFL. When you buy a gun from him a background check is required. Yes, background checks are performed on the spot at gun shows.

Table B is operated by a private individual. When you buy a gun from him no background check is required.

Basically it's gun control advocates crying about ALL private sales whether at a gun show or between you and your neighbor. A few states have adopted universal background checks. I think some states handle private sales at gun shows differently than other private sales. But most states don't meddle in private sales other than laws that you aren't knowingly selling a gun to a prohibited person.

[Pef]

It's a talking point that has been deceitfully proffered by gun control advocates and accepted as truth by low-information citizens. A case study of how a lie becomes a truth if told often enough.

[hatt]

It's the private sale loophole. But they can't say that.

[Damn Yankee]

The Anti's keep saying we need some common sense gun laws. I thought that all the laws were common sense.

These laws they want, have they been mention and I have missed hearing or reading what they want?

Do you suppose if the Gov put a lot more restrictions on buying and owning a automobile it would stop people from "Texting" while Driving?

[Arik]

Originally Posted by arjay

it's a talking point,some gun shows allow private sales( depending where you live) without a background check,but they eliminated that where I live about 20 years ago

Kinda this. They are talking about person to person sales. It's just more common at gunshows cause people with guns show up to buy and sell. Someone they got it in their head that it only happens in gunshows. Like as if a bunch of people with firearms just yell out "GUNSHOW" and all of a sudden the loophole applies. Even the person to person sale is dependent on the state laws not gun show loopholes. For instance, in Pa it doesn't matter how many or how large the gun show is, you cannot sell handguns to another individual without a background check

[PatriotX]

Originally Posted by Arik

...Like as if a bunch of people with firearms just yell out "GUNSHOW" and all of a sudden the loophole applies...

That's a funny image. Thanks for the chuckle.

[k22fan]

The liberals are frustrated because the voting public and constitution prevent them drastically reducing the number of privately owned guns and the number of people who are allowed to own guns. Claiming there is a gun show loop hole is just one more way for them to chip away at the edges.

At the moment this forum’s collectors should be more concerned with President Obama’s announcement that he intends to redefine active private buying and selling as illegally operating a gun business without a license. He did not say how many private sales per year it takes to further upset an already frustrated liberal nor is there any clarity in the law. Obama’s plans were laid out in the speech he made as a reaction to the recent school shooting in Oregon.

[Damn Yankee]

What kinda sale was it that some of the Gov rifles ended up in the drug dealers hands that killed one of our agents?

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If you're referring to the Gunwalking scandal about allowing guns in the States to get to drug cartels in Mexico, that was the ATF allowing "straw purchases" from FFLs. Basically that means someone who is legal to buy guns does so with the intent of transferring to someone else. Typically the other person can't buy/own a gun legally but even if the other person could legally buy the gun it's still defined as a straw purchase.

[Rick_A]

It's the next step they're trying to sell the public on in order to implement European style "gun reform," I.E. registering, controlling, and eliminating guns they don't think we should own.

[Old TexMex]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

If you're referring to the Gunwalking scandal about allowing guns in the States to get to drug cartels in Mexico, that was the ATF allowing "straw purchases" from FFLs. Basically that means someone who is legal to buy guns does so with the intent of transferring to someone else. Typically the other person can't buy/own a gun legally but even if the other person could legally buy the gun it's still defined as a straw purchase.

And there you have it. A law that only a criminal would break. And by breaking that law, he would be a criminal...but he wouldn't break that law unless he was a criminal. (Or someone employed by an agency to do so.)

[nw creek]

Complaints about private gun sales (loopholes) included North Carolina; a fairly open state for gun ownership and use. But even in NC, the law states that in a private gun sale the buyer must provide either a gun purchase permit, or a CCL; both require background checks to obtain. there are no loopholes in this state if the current law is followed.

The idiots in the media and the administration must know this, they are just not being truthful to the public.

More and more laws are being handed down due to lies and ignorance!

[steelslaver]

Here there is no restrictions on private sales. Most of the people selling many guns at gun shows have an FFL. A few don't, they might have a table full of scopes, stocks, holsters or something like that and one or 2 guns and no FFL. Maybe some of the guys with a 10 or so of old collectible guns, but they are not selling cheap and they are not the kind of guns criminals want. It cost money to have a table at a show. If you don't do some volume it would be hard to make it a paying proposition buying and selling guns without an FFL.

It is all malarkey to try to pass laws forbidding private sales. In other words telling an honest man he can't sell, trade or give away his private property without their OK. Want to give your son your gun? Not if they have their way.

[wrhk33]

Every state is different. Some do not allow private sales so this is not an issue. The public for the most part do not understand private sales are legal. I run into people all the time who think we have gun registration here. My local gun shows have a good deal of private sellers. Some even put a sign on their table stating this to attract people that don't want a federal paper trail. Many buyers ask if it is a private sale because they don't want a federal trail.

People walk around with signs on their backs or on their guns listing their guns for sale. You don't have to have a table to sell guns at a show.

Banning the private sale will just lead to another and another law, one small step at a time. The goal is to ban all private ownership in my opinion.

[Chuck24]

Most of the private sales at gun shows around here are collectable oriented, and if you can afford them you don't need to be knocking over the 7/11.

[Sconnie]

Originally Posted by nw creek

Complaints about private gun sales (loopholes) included North Carolina; a fairly open state for gun ownership and use. But even in NC, the law states that in a private gun sale the buyer must provide either a gun purchase permit, or a CCL; both require background checks to obtain. there are no loopholes in this state if the current law is followed.

Huh, I guess I would not call a State that requires a permit to buy a gun to be a "fairly open state for gun ownership" but if the folks of NC are comfortable with that, fine by me. I know many States do that too. Like Illinois requires a Firearms Owner ID card to buy a gun and handgun ammunition.

Here in WI there are a good number of private sellers of all types of handguns and long guns at gun shows. No permit needed to buy and no background checks. You are supposed to show your WI ID or DL to prove you are an in-State purchaser for handguns at least. That is the "loophole" that they speak of. The same as if you spotted an ad somewhere for a private gun for sale in WI and bought it direct versus going through an FFL. No background check = "loophole." At this point a gun in WI is still just a piece of private property.

Seems to me that the folks advocating for universal background checks know that it will be necessary to create a State and then Federal database to register serial numbers to make it enforceable. Then there are States like Oregon where the waters got muddied over whether you could loan your firearm to a friend for target shooting or hunting. At least I thought it was Oregon, maybe it was Washington. Either way one thing will lead to another if given the chance.

[Krell1]

It's all in what a person "in power" says that those in the general public believe. If you are a gun enthusiast, like we all are, you know the truth. The anti-gun people will believe the "gun show loophole". Trying to educate said folks is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube but, on second thought, the toothpaste would be easier.

[k22fan]

Originally Posted by Sconnie

[...] Then there are States like Oregon where the waters got muddied over whether you could loan your firearm to a friend for target shooting or hunting. At least I thought it was Oregon, maybe it was Washington. Either way one thing will lead to another if given the chance.

Washington. Here's what happened. Michael Bloomberg's organization's millions as well as his own was pooled with millions donated by local computer company billionaires to buy radio and TV ads promoting an initiative. They spent 11 million. I saw the same ad run three times in a row during the same ad break in prime time TV! The initiative passed so Washington can no longer be accused of having a "gun show loop hole."

[lagavulin62]

When BHO made his "loophole" rant he also talked about "the ease" of buying on the internet. I have had many people ask me why it is people can buy guns on the internet w/o a background check. It is just incredible how stupid people are about gun laws and gun purchases. With their ignorance the gun controllers can say anything and they will believe it.

[coltle6920]

It's easy to research "gun show loopholes." I don't know the date of the article I got this from but here's a quote...

A total of 11 states require background checks for at least some gun purchases at gun shows. Seven of those states require background checks for all gun purchases, while four states require background checks for only handgun purchases.

That's not too bad considering there are 57 states.

You can read the rest of the article here...
Firearm Show Laws by State and "The Gun Show Loophole"

Nothing else on that page is pertinent to this discussion.

[sturtyboy]

Well...in California, all sales are required to go through an FFL, no matter whose selling or buying. Other requirements and exemptions apply. Then unless there is a law enforcement type of exemption, there is a 10 day waiting period and background check.

Private transfers are within the State only. Outside CA. sales of handguns must be on a State roster. And of course an FFL must do the transfer.

That's why so many out of state sellers don't want to mess with CA. The gun in an auction or dealer, must be on the Roster. If not...it goes back.

The roster is a limited list of State approved handguns. Manufacturers submit their handguns for approval. And it it very specific to that the exact SKU that appears on the list, barrel length and finish all apply. There's about less than 100 S&W's on the list The approved has a time limit. Guns go off and on this list throughout time.

So, I can only buy new rostered handgun or used handguns sold through private transfer from within the State. If I want to buy a used un-rostered gun out of State...I'm out of luck, unless I break the law and the seller doesn't care.

There are those individuals who would do a deal outside of the CA. law, regardless of it being a gun show or not. That can take place anywhere.

[Muss Muggins]

The "gun show loophole" is actually the "private party sale loophole." If a state allows private party sales without background checks (mine does), it is easier to find a gun at a gun show than it is on Facebook and the classifieds. Form over function.

[steelslaver]

Thing is they want to first have all gun transactions controlled and on paper. Then they will gather up the paper and form a data base thinking that they will have know who has what guns and be able to track each gun. So, simple and they will know every gun transaction and no prohibited person will be able to get one.

Except for the millions that are already in the system and have been sold prior to 1968 and those already sold via private sales. Plus, those that are stolen.

Except for someone who sets up a small CNC machine shop and starts making simple machine guns like the UZI or grease gun. Selling them to organized crime for distribution. We already have underground drug manufacturing, we hardly need underground gun manufacturing.

Honest rational people do honest rational things. Outlaw mean simply that, does stuff outside the law. I guess it is not that simple because many fail to grasp it.
The rates of murder and mayhem have gone up since the GCA 0f 1968 not down. More of the same won't fix it. Doing more of the same thing and expecting different results is a form of insanity. The insane should not be allowed to have guns OR VOTE.

ALL WE NEED IS A LAW. ALL WE NEED IS A LAW. ALL WE NEED IS A LAW. ALL WE NEED IS A LAW. all we need is a law. all we need is a law. all we need is a law. all we need is a law.

[Warren Sear]

Properly translated, "closing the gun show loophole" means "we want a complete and total ban on the private ownership of any and all guns".

[Black_Sheep]

In most states, person to person sales are perfectly legal as long as some simple criteria are met. (residency, age, etc...) That said, lately even the private sellers have been asking buyers for a valid permit to purchase or CCW to verify that the purchaser is not prohibited from owning a firearm. They aren't recording the info, they're just checking to cover their behind...

[Gamecock]

Any adult who is not locked up can get a gun.

[ladder13]

They, except one, said it the other night. They want "common sense gun control", but it's never defined.

[Warren Sear]

Originally Posted by ladder13

They, except one, said it the other night. They want "common sense gun control", but it's never defined.

"Common sense gun control" means the same as "closing the gun show loophole". It means they want an immediate, complete and total ban on the private ownership of any and all guns.

[Old TexMex]

Originally Posted by ladder13

They, except one, said it the other night. They want "common sense gun control", but it's never defined.

Here's the REAL definition:
Article II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


"Loopholes notwithstanding"

[Iggy]

Gee, just think sometime in 2017 with just a stroke of her pen, millions of us could become felons.
Nuff sed.

[PatriotX]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Gee, just think sometime in 2017 with just a stroke of her pen, millions of us could become felons.
Nuff sed.

Changing the constitution would require 30 states to sign off on the changes, IIRC.

The President could choose to take Executive Action in adding a Federal requirement of checks for every sale, but cannot do ANYTHING unilaterally to the Second Amendment.

[Gamecock]

Originally Posted by Warren Sear

"Common sense gun control" means the same as "closing the gun show loophole". It means they want an immediate, complete and total ban on the private ownership of any and all guns.

That's right. They are saying that they have common sense, and we DON'T!

[lagavulin62]

Originally Posted by PatriotX

Changing the constitution would require 30 states to sign off on the changes, IIRC.

The President could choose to take Executive Action in adding a Federal requirement of checks for every sale, but cannot do ANYTHING unilaterally to the Second Amendment.

While this is true we are at a very serious crossroads as gun haters don't have to repeal the 2nd to eliminate our rights to arms. The strategy is to make it useless and out of reach of the common man. The problem is that most Americans have no clue what the real intentions are of gun controllers. So they believe this "safety" line along with their ignorance believing that govt only wants to help. It is a huge battle ahead and if our opponents make this an issue and continue to label their campain "gun safety", free of an opposing stance by us we will lose again in 2016. That's not a pretty picture because at that point "the vote" will be as pointless as this discussion. It is critical in my opinion we make this the issue of the day and paint a realistic picture of the opposition at all debates. Fortunately if our candidate takes on the challenge we have plenty of ammo to win this. The public needs to understand the truth of the 2nd, that there is no moderation. You are either for it or against it.

[CoMF]

Originally Posted by lagavulin62

The public needs to understand the truth of the Bill of Rights, that there is no moderation. You are either for it in its entirety or against it.

FIFY.

People need to understand that lawful firearm ownership is a basic human right, as much as the right to a fair trial by a jury of your peers, the freedom to speak without fear, or freedrom from unreasonable searches and seizures.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by Old TexMex

Here's the REAL definition:
Article II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


"Loopholes notwithstanding"

It's an amazing thing that even many gun owners think the 2A reads... the right of the people to keep and bear arms is secondary to government's right to infringe upon.

[Iggy]

You might want to encourage people to take a gander at the Third Amendment too.

It is a large part of why the Second Amendment came to be and is beginning to look pretty germain today.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by PatriotX

Changing the constitution would require 30 states to sign off on the changes, IIRC.

The President could choose to take Executive Action in adding a Federal requirement of checks for every sale, but cannot do ANYTHING unilaterally to the Second Amendment.

Actually, it's 38 states.

[Big Stick]

I have an extremely liberal leaning cousin, who along with her husband are in the education industry. She feels that guns are far too easy to obtain. Every time she states that on FacePlace, I ask her if she has ever walked down to her friendly LGS, and attempted to buy a pistol or assault type rifle. Thats usually the end of the conversation.....

[Old TexMex]

Originally Posted by Iggy

You might want to encourage people to take a gander at the Third Amendment too.

It is a large part of why the Second Amendment came to be and is beginning to look pretty germain today.

And here is an interesting look at how the Second, Third and Tenth are tied together:

How did America’s police become a military force on the streets?

An article that I do not entirely agree with, but one certainly worth considering, particularly regarding the federal agent and his/ her place in public law enforcement and federal assistance to local law enforcement.

[steelslaver]

Personally I am all for "common sense" gun control. My problem is who's common sense are we going to use? Mine or some nitwit who thinks a misdemeanor charge for putting more than 5 rounds in a magazine will stop someone bend on murder and mayhem?

[PatriotX]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Actually, it's 38 states.

Thanks for the correction.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by PatriotX

Thanks for the correction.

I didn't know if it were 2/3 or 3/4, had to look it up myself.

Raises the bar, in any event.

[italiansport]

I think it's time to spell this out in plain English:

There is NO GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE. In every State the laws of that State plus any applicable Federal laws are in effect at a gun show. "Gun Show Loophole" along with "Cop Killer Bullets, "Assault Rifle" and "undetectable guns" are some of the misleading terms used by certain anti-gun groups with an uninformed public in an attempt to sway them to their side.

I for one still haven't seen any "blood running in the streets" as a result of the passage of concealed carry laws as these same groups swore would happen. These groups are able to get away with this B.S. because the "mainstream news media" refuses to call them on it.
Jim

[gregintenn]

In Tennessee, I can sell my buddy a gun at my home, in the Waffle House parking lot, or at a gunshow without any paperwork or background check. Somehow, politicians seem to think it's a problem if it happens at a gun show.

[Capt.Jim]

My favorite phrase is the "Military Style" addition in front of any gun related term.
In their restricted minds "military style" makes a gun more deadlier and therefore more dangerous than any ordinary gun!

An ignorant but effective statement for uneducated minds!

They ignore that the "style" is an esthetics issue and had no effect on the power of any product.

I wonder if we put Navy Seal Style clothing on Richard Simmons does it turn him into a powerful and deadly warrior?

I laugh every time I hear that phrase!

[gregintenn]

Originally Posted by Capt.Jim

My favorite phrase is the "Military Style" addition in front of any gun related term.
In their restricted minds "military style" makes a gun more deadlier and therefore more dangerous than any ordinary gun!

An ignorant but effective statement for uneducated minds!

They ignore that the "style" is an esthetics issue and had no effect on the power of any product.

I wonder if we put Navy Seal Style clothing on Richard Simmons does it turn him into a powerful and deadly warrior?

I laugh every time I hear that phrase!

I suppose a side hammer muzzleloader could be considered "military style" if you go far enough back into military history.

[opaul]

Originally Posted by nw creek

Complaints about private gun sales (loopholes) included North Carolina; a fairly open state for gun ownership and use. But even in NC, the law states that in a private gun sale the buyer must provide either a gun purchase permit, or a CCL; both require background checks to obtain. there are no loopholes in this state if the current law is followed.

The idiots in the media and the administration must know this, they are just not being truthful to the public.

More and more laws are being handed down due to lies and ignorance!

You nailed it. Anything outside of this is illegal, which lawful gun owners will not do. It's the criminal element that creates the so called loop hole.

[keith44spl]

Gun Show Loophole....Jest more rhetoric, double talk

Hows come we didn't have all this going on before 1968
and the out cry to ban the infamous 'Saturday Nite Special' ?


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