UPDATE New Hampshire committee vote on gun seizure bill

delcrossv · #1 10-29-2019, 10:48 AM

Hey, New Hampshire members! Contact your state reps! Red flag committee vote is coming up.

See here:

NRA-ILA | New Hampshire: House Committee to Vote on Firearm Seizure Bill

gman51 · #2 10-29-2019, 11:41 AM

I often wonder why some in a political arena are allowed to ignore the Constitution based on their own thoughts of how things should be. When it comes to taking away someone's freedoms for personal defense without any crime being committed it seems just so illegal and wrong.

Call the police wanting them to do something about an accusation of what hasn't happened and they will tell you they can't arrest a person that has not committed a crime. It is not illegal to own a gun, well in some states it isn't. It seems these Red Flag laws are possibly a big can of worms. Red Flag laws are confiscation of personal property without a crime being committed plain and simple. Would any DA consider a case of accusation without merit as grounds for an arrest? In these Red Flag events there could be only accusations made. Sounds like kangaroo court doesn't it?
A person is "accused" that he "might" drink alcohol so should his car be taken away from him? He might someday drive drunk so let's take his car away before it happens.
I am not saying an accusation should be ignored but there shouldn't be an arrest or confiscation of property because of an accusation. Red Flag laws it seems could make lawyers a lot of money and take away a person's right to bear arms.

delcrossv · #3 10-29-2019, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman51

I often wonder why some in a political arena are allowed to ignore the Constitution based on their own thoughts of how things should be. When it comes to taking away someone's freedoms for personal defense without any crime being committed it seems just so illegal and wrong.

Call the police wanting them to do something about an accusation of what hasn't happened and they will tell you they can't arrest a person that has not committed a crime. It is not illegal to own a gun, well in some states it isn't. It seems these Red Flag laws are possibly a big can of worms. Red Flag laws are confiscation of personal property without a crime being committed plain and simple. Would any DA consider a case of accusation without merit as grounds for an arrest? In these Red Flag events there could be only accusations made. Sounds like kangaroo court doesn't it?
A person is "accused" that he "might" drink alcohol so should his car be taken away from him? He might someday drive drunk so let's take his car away before it happens.
I am not saying an accusation should be ignored but there shouldn't be an arrest or confiscation of property because of an accusation. Red Flag laws it seems could make lawyers a lot of money and take away a person's right to bear arms.

Yep. That's called "due process' which is what these laws ignore.

Recusant · #4 10-29-2019, 09:27 PM

The editor of Gun Tests writes that using the term "red flag laws" is inaccurate and calling this action "no-due-process gun confiscations" is much more correct.

stansdds · #5 10-30-2019, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman51

I often wonder why some in a political arena are allowed to ignore the Constitution based on their own thoughts of how things should be. When it comes to taking away someone's freedoms for personal defense without any crime being committed it seems just so illegal and wrong.

Good question, perhaps it is based on the concept of if you tell the same lie long enough, the people will believe it to be the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recusant

The editor of Gun Tests writes that using the term "red flag laws" is inaccurate and calling this action "no-due-process gun confiscations" is much more correct.

Yet another set of laws sold as being good intentions, but has bad outcomes.

84Carrera · #6 10-31-2019, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delcrossv

Hey, New Hampshire members! Contact your state reps! Red flag committee vote is coming up.

See here:

NRA-ILA | New Hampshire: House Committee to Vote on Firearm Seizure Bill

Fight the good fight Granite Staters! NH is a fine state, (I lived there for 12 years). Don't let a few hacks ruin it.

delcrossv · #7 11-05-2019, 02:10 PM

Update: Now moved to House floor:

On October 30th, the New Hampshire state Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee sent House Bill 687 to the House floor for further consideration after a motion to kill the bill failed by a vote of 9-11.

House Bill 687, sponsored by Representative Debra Altschiller (D-Rockingham 19), would suspend Second Amendment rights following baseless accusations without adequate due process protections in place. Such orders would be issued after an ex parte hearing where the respondent is not present to challenge allegations made against them or face their accuser.

Further, if the order is vacated after an individual surrenders their firearms, that individual will have to go to court to have their property returned. Because law enforcement would have immunity for any damage done to the firearms while in their possession, there would be no incentive for them to care for the personal property that was seized.

On top of all of this, filing a false order would only be a misdemeanor, while violating an order would be a Class B felony, punishable by up to three and a half to seven years of imprisonment. Such an extreme disparity could lead to false accusations against many law-abiding individuals.

Please stay tuned to NRA-ILA | Home and your email inbox for further updates on this bill and other issues affecting our Second Amendment rights in New Hampshire.

stansdds · #8 11-06-2019, 07:47 AM

That is a very lopsided bill. A red flag charge made against someone, that someone loses their rights and firearms, no chance to challenge the seizure of property. If the charge is dropped or found to be false, the one who filed the false charge gets a fine, the one who had property seized might not get their property returned or if it is returned, may be damaged, perhaps an "accident" happened that destroyed to property. So long, Bill of Rights, it was nice while it lasted.

I fear this will become the norm in many, if not most, states.

steelslaver · #9 11-06-2019, 08:56 AM

I don't think that the misdemeanor for filing a false order is going to fly very long. Conspiracy to deprive someone of a constitutional right isn't a misdemeanor.

jimbo728 · #10 11-06-2019, 03:48 PM

[QUOTE=steelslaver;140585031]I don't think that the misdemeanor for filing a false order is going to fly very long. Conspiracy to deprive someone of a constitutional right isn't a misdemeanor.[/QUO

I will use your great reasoning in my letter to the Governer and State reps. Excellent!
Jim