NYS getting close to BGcheck for ammo purchases?

[2152hq]

When the SAFE ACT was passed in NYS (2014?) there was a provision in it to have ammo sales done only by licensed Ammunition Sellers.

That came to be with the issuance of Ammunition Sellers Licenses. If you had an FFL & a NYS Dealers Lic (handguns) at the time, they sent you one w/o you asking for it.

The new law stated that eventually , all ammunition sales were to be 'Logged' like a firearms sale.
Hardly anyone took that seriously until about a year ago. Then the msg sent was 'do it' but with little guidance.

Also in the orig Law was the fact that there would be a system much like the Fed NICS Check but for ammo sales. The BG check would be done by the NYSP and that is who the Ammo Dealer/FFL would be calling.
That never came to be, but was still a provision of the law,,just on the backburner.

When Gov Hochul expanded the SAFE Act recently, the BGCheck for ammo to the NYSP was expanded to include the NYSP as being the Point of Contact (POC) for the NICS Check as well.
Several States use their SP agency as a POC who inturn call in the NICS as well as do a State and Local file check.

That idea seemed to have sat quietly with a start date in question.
In the new law was a provision for a flat fee for calling the 800# that the Dealer will be charged.
A flat fee for the call,,that is regardless of wether the call was made for a BG check that was made for an Ammo sale or for a NYSP POC/NICS check for a gun transfer.
(Could run up the cost of a box of .22's significantly if the cost is past along on ammo sales which I expect it to be.)

The last 'rumor' of when the actual phone call BG check for ammo sales was going to happen was sometime in July 2023.
Well that didn't happen.

Now the target date is Sept 15, 2023.
That is a date that is given on the NYS Safe Act website.
Not a confirmed date once again, but one of those target dates .

The NYSP did post for positions within the NYSP for Operations Specialists @ $61,300/yr.
The job desc stated it's for doing BG checks for ammunition and firearms purchases and working closely with NICS.
Not a CivilService test, but looking for transfers internally w/in the NYSP if I read it correctly.
Opened applications 4/28,,closed 5/19/23
Not much time for all of their delay so far.

https://troopers.ny.gov/system/files...ecialist-3.pdf

Looks like maybe it's finally going to happen.

Free from Crime,,one step closer

[Bald1]

I wouldn’t bet on it.

[demkofour]

Originally Posted by Bald1

I wouldn’t bet on it.

On it happening, or happening by the projected date?


I personally spoke with member of the NYSP from the local troop’s gun unit and he (unfortunately) assured me that it was inevitable that New York would be conducting gun and ammunition background checks before years end…

[Racer X]

9th Circuit is in the middle of a lawsuit in a CA district court about this, in Judge Benitez court. Everything points to it being unconstitutional on multiple reasons. He's just being scrupulous about following all procedures to the letter, and even gave the state 2 extensions, as further grounds to prevent an overturn later. They have had way more time than needed, twice.

They even went so far as to reference Black Codes as their supporting laws. Judge Benitez asked them twice if they really wanted to go there. Who knew California has a racist AG?

His ruling is due out by end of year. He then tackles "assault weapon" ban, which he already ruled unconstitutional, and that was pre-Bruen. I don't know which judge is handling the magazine ban retrial, also being ruled on again, after Bruen. It was unconstitutional the first time, triggering a Freedom Week flood of magazines being shipped in from out of state.

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by demkofour

On it happening, or happening by the projected date?


I personally spoke with member of the NYSP from the local troop’s gun unit and he (unfortunately) assured me that it was inevitable that New York would be conducting gun and ammunition background checks before years end…

Both. State is to incompetent to implement and court will shoot it down. Pun intended

[357larry]

What is to prevent New Yorkers from crossing State lines to buy ammo?

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by 357larry

What is to prevent New Yorkers from crossing State lines to buy ammo?

That was one of the questions Judge Benitez asked the CA state lawyers. He said he used to go dove hunting in AZ, and under this law, if he purchased shells in AZ, would he have to ship them to a FFL in CA and go through a background check to get his own property back? What if he was dove hunting in CA, and his hunting buddy was short of ammo, would they have to go to a FFL to get cleared for him to hand over a shotshell? What about a fellow competitor at a shooting match who needed more rounds?

I really wish there was audio of the oral arguements, that would be the best podcast ever. Its my understanding his tone of voice says volumes above just the transcript.

Everyone needs to get on those mailing lists and send those e-mails at every opportunity!!!!!!!

One other thing to note, with the CA lawsuit, it looks unconstitutional because it imposes blocks to interstate commerce. You can't just order from out of state, and ship a federally unregulated product to your home.

[smoothshooter]

Yet another benefit of living in and funding a socialist state.
Shooters will grumble about it for a little while, then shrug their shoulders and comply.
And they wouldn’t even think about moving to a better state.

[smoothshooter]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Both. State is to incompetent to implement and court will shoot it down. Pun intended

What if the State Supreme Court or the Federal SC rules it unconstitutional and NYS decides to ignore the ruling, as they have in the past?

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by smoothshooter

What if the State Supreme Court or the Federal SC rules it unconstitutional and NYS decides to ignore the ruling, as they have in the past?

They have never blatantly ignored a ruling. They simply pass a law and the fun starts all over.

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by smoothshooter

Yet another benefit of living in and funding a socialist state.
Shooters will grumble about it for a little while, then shrug their shoulders and comply.
And they wouldn’t even think about moving to a better state.

I can only speak for NY. But outdoorsman in general are finally pushing back. These lawsuits aren’t free. The outdoorsmen and woman fund it through donations. The NRA is strangely absent/quiet when it comes to NY. Mostly state level 2A group’s fighting the fight. As for leaving the state. It’s just not possible for the majority of people. Saying it is one thing. Doing it is another. I know this all to well as I’m in the process of leaving. It’ll be a 3 yr ordeal by the time the relocation is complete. There’s jobs/careers, homes, family, etc. A guy 20 yrs into a 30 yr pension isn’t picking up and moving. Business owners aren’t picking up and moving. Financially unstable families aren’t picking up and moving. Care givers to family members aren’t picking up and moving…… Im kinda tired of hearing “ why don’t you just leave”.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by Bald1

They have never blatantly ignored a ruling. They simply pass a law and the fun starts all over.

Until SCOTUS ruling, each state can try for themselves with bans and regulations. And if a Circuit sets a precedent, it only effects those states in that Circuit. So rulings in the 9th Circuit in CA will also effect WA and OR. Indirectly it might influence similar cases in other Circuits. And SCOTUS can only rule on a specific question, or group of tightly interlocked questions. Each state trying something different, raising a different question is how they seem to be doing it. CA has a mag ban lawsuit far ahead of the WA and OR ones, and the CA case will likely decide the issue for those states. Just an educated guess.

Now if one Circuit rules something constitutional, and another unconstitutional, SCOTUS has to get involved. That is split Circuits, and one of the SCOTUS primary roles. This will likely happen in IL and CA with the ban lawsuits. 9th and 5th Circuits.

[Bald1]

One thing I hear nothing about is NY changing ATF definition of “other” firearm. Specifically the Shockwave and Remington TAC 14” barreled shotguns. NY did not grandfather in currently owned guns. They made it a felony to posses. You were supposed to sell it out of state, or surrender it. That is confiscation. That is the ULTIMATE 2A infringement.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Bald1

I can only speak for NY. But outdoorsman in general are finally pushing back. These lawsuits aren’t free. The outdoorsmen and woman fund it through donations. The NRA is strangely absent/quiet when it comes to NY. Mostly state level 2A group’s fighting the fight. As for leaving the state. It’s just not possible for the majority of people. Saying it is one thing. Doing it is another. I know this all to well as I’m in the process of leaving. It’ll be a 3 yr ordeal by the time the relocation is complete. There’s jobs/careers, homes, family, etc. A guy 20 yrs into a 30 yr pension isn’t picking up and moving. Business owners aren’t picking up and moving. Financially unstable families aren’t picking up and moving. Care givers to family members aren’t picking up and moving…… Im kinda tired of hearing “ why don’t you just leave”.

Nominated for post of the year.

[pharmer]

I thought Ronny Reagan fixed this in 1986. He closed the NFA book on new MG's and "de-regulated" ammo by doing away with the "bound book" for ammo. Never was a "crime prevention measure" but the regulation stampede that was the GCA of 1968 thought it a good idea. I lost a ton of ($$$) business as an FFL supplying lots of ammo/ reloading supplies to Osceola County shooters. Joe

[smoothshooter]

Originally Posted by Bald1

I can only speak for NY. But outdoorsman in general are finally pushing back. These lawsuits aren’t free. The outdoorsmen and woman fund it through donations. The NRA is strangely absent/quiet when it comes to NY. Mostly state level 2A group’s fighting the fight. As for leaving the state. It’s just not possible for the majority of people. Saying it is one thing. Doing it is another. I know this all to well as I’m in the process of leaving. It’ll be a 3 yr ordeal by the time the relocation is complete. There’s jobs/careers, homes, family, etc. A guy 20 yrs into a 30 yr pension isn’t picking up and moving. Business owners aren’t picking up and moving. Financially unstable families aren’t picking up and moving. Care givers to family members aren’t picking up and moving…… Im kinda tired of hearing “ why don’t you just leave”.

Middle aged parents should be encouraging their young adult children to get out of the state before they become entangled in NY company retirement plans, and extended family connections in places like NY.
Start new family groups in states with more freedom.
Those who remain behind are continuing to fund the madness with their tax money.
It’s a vicious, self-perpetuating cycle.

[dave1918a2]

I just up and left Colorado because of the onerous gun laws being passed and offered for future consideration. It took a year to prepare and 3 months to get it done. I'm retired so I didn't have to find a job. I made enough on My house sale that I can live comfortably. There aren't that many good paying jobs up here and those people moving in are mostly well heeled and Liberal. Just pack up and leave isn't an option for most folks.

[fordson]

Originally Posted by Bald1

I can only speak for NY. But outdoorsman in general are finally pushing back. These lawsuits aren’t free. The outdoorsmen and woman fund it through donations. The NRA is strangely absent/quiet when it comes to NY. Mostly state level 2A group’s fighting the fight. As for leaving the state. It’s just not possible for the majority of people. Saying it is one thing. Doing it is another. I know this all to well as I’m in the process of leaving. It’ll be a 3 yr ordeal by the time the relocation is complete. There’s jobs/careers, homes, family, etc. A guy 20 yrs into a 30 yr pension isn’t picking up and moving. Business owners aren’t picking up and moving. Financially unstable families aren’t picking up and moving. Care givers to family members aren’t picking up and moving…… Im kinda tired of hearing “ why don’t you just leave”.

Well said…….

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by Bald1

One thing I hear nothing about is NY changing ATF definition of “other” firearm. Specifically the Shockwave and Remington TAC 14” barreled shotguns. NY did not grandfather in currently owned guns. They made it a felony to posses. You were supposed to sell it out of state, or surrender it. That is confiscation. That is the ULTIMATE 2A infringement.

and because it was never challenged in Federal Court as a "taking" issue, they got away with it. And it very much does not mean it was legal.

[NYlakesider]

I just received this and hopefully put it in the right place, if not sorry and please move to where it belongs.



This was sent to us by NSSF. This is what is happening very shortly. The following is geared toward dealers but has good information. You may be able to pass a firearm background check but fail the ammunition background check as they are going to dig into more personal records for ammo. This is going to be a mess!

New York Timeline for New System
New York State Police Hold Informational Call
The New York State Police held a call earlier today to discuss the changes that will impact retailers across the state as New York transitions to a point of contact state. Unfortunately, the process has been done without input from the firearm industry and will most likely cause severe impacts to your daily business.

As discussed, the state police will be the clearing house through a web-based application for all background checks for firearms and ammunition. Answers to many of the questions posed by the participants were not thoroughly addressed. State police did lay out a timeline for the roll-out along with explaining an upcoming addition to their FAQ section on the website concerning this major change. The call was accompanied by 2 slides with bullet point generally explaining the process with very little detail.

While lacking concrete information concerning how the new system will function, recourse for when it fails, appeals processes and the inevitable delays retailers will experience, they did lay out a few bullet points referencing actions retailers must take.

All NYS Firearms and Ammunition Dealers will be able to begin the registration process on August 16th.
Business Owners/Administrators will need to register the business-One Administrator for all stores.
Business Administrators invite their employees to register for their business.
Each user (administrators and store employees) will need an NY.gov business account.
All employee transactions are seen in one dashboard for the business.

The state police also mentioned that the background check fee for firearms will be $9 and ammunition $2.50. The state police said they will be the intermediary for all firearms transactions as they will contact NICS which does not explain then why they need to charge a fee. There seems to be little misunderstanding of what exactly a point of contact state (POC) actually means. Amazingly the state police said that there could be situations where someone could pass a background check for a firearm but fail for the ammunition. Their explanation was that for ammunition they might check more records in state, but obviously if one is prohibited from possessing or buying ammunition you would think they would also be prohibited from purchasing a firearm but not in New York’s bureaucratic world.
The targeted date to begin processing NICS applications is Wednesday, September 13th.

FBI will disconnect all connections with FFLs once NY becomes a POC.
All registered users will be able to login in to the NYS NICS web application and submit new NICS transactions.
Transactional cost- Firearms=$9 and Ammunition=$2.50
An IVR-Automated Phone application system will be available for use by all dealers with a saved payment method.
Live operators will only be available to help with technical assistance, they will not have the ability to enter NICS applications on behalf of the business.

[Rich Richardson]

Born and raised in NY, stayed for 65 years and left 10 years ago.
When I see threads like this I always watch “My Dinner With Andre” again. It’s the scene titled “New York is a prison”.

[dockmurgw]

Out there...somewhere...ammo dealers on the VT side of the long NY/VT border are stocking their shelves for day trippers.

[Camster]

Originally Posted by demkofour

On it happening, or happening by the projected date?


I personally spoke with member of the NYSP from the local troop’s gun unit and he (unfortunately) assured me that it was inevitable that New York would be conducting gun and ammunition background checks before years end…

Between expensive ammo...add a background check fee into that shortly, and $25 or $25+ for the range fee, and the long ride for same, it gets pricey to do a little target practice here on our big sandbar...just as they want it to be.

[ladder13]

I’m pretty sure any FFL taking in an ammo order is going to charge a fee.

[HeyJoe]

Originally Posted by ladder13

I’m pretty sure any FFL taking in an ammo order is going to charge a fee.

they already do

[ladder13]

NY Sheriff gets bit by ammo BGC. DELAYED.

Sheriff Stymied In Ammo Purchase After New Law Kicks In | News, Sports, Jobs - Post Journal

[Valmet]

Oddly enough I got a text yesterday from an old friend who relocated to Cornwall NY last year from Georgia for work and he told me that he walked in to his LGS to buy some hunting ammo and they told him they needed to do a background check and pay an additional fee so he walked out.

[Racer X]

It might be of some help that Judge Benitez should be ruling on the CA ammo purchasing scheme before too long. Oral arguments were months ago. here are the current documents https://michellawyers.com/rhode-v-becerra/

"The State’s own data shows that from January to June of 2023, the AFS Check
denied 141 prohibited persons, but it wrongfully rejected 58,087 people. Id. at p. 15
(Table 1.1). In other words, the State’s “background check” system wrongfully rejects
around 410 people for each prohibited person it rightfully denies. That is far from an
acceptable ratio, especially when close to 40% of people denied by the AFS Check do not
successfully purchase ammunition even after six months following the denial. Id. at ¶ 31."

They asked for a summary judgement on Oct 2nd, 2023 and a status conference is due 11/13.

[luvsmiths]

Are NY residents allowed to mail order ammo still?

[Model 15-4ever]

Originally Posted by luvsmiths

Are NY residents allowed to mail order ammo still?

I think "mail order" went the way of the dodo bird about 25 years ago....

They can order online and have it shipped to a dealer. Cannot be shipped directly to the customer.

[luvsmiths]

Originally Posted by Model 15-4ever

I think "mail order" went the way of the dodo bird about 25 years ago....

They can order online and have it shipped to a dealer. Cannot be shipped directly to the customer.

Sigh..........
Would have been too easy- stupid question it was, I guess.

[HeyJoe]

that was prohibited by the Safe Act in 2013

[demkofour]

Originally Posted by ladder13

NY Sheriff gets bit by ammo BGC. DELAYED.

Sheriff Stymied In Ammo Purchase After New Law Kicks In | News, Sports, Jobs - Post Journal

At the shop I work at p/t, we kinda routinely get a “processing” response on gun and ammunition background checks. “Delay” are not as common but do occur. I’ve personally seen them several times on active duty police and peace officers.
And FWIW, the governor is now essentially “taxing” gun and ammunition purchases- each background check (gun, ammunition or gun/ammunition) costs the dealer running the check and that cost is added to the customer’s bill.

[stansdds]

Originally Posted by demkofour

At the shop I work at p/t, we kinda routinely get a “processing” response on gun and ammunition background checks. “Delay” are not as common but do occur. I’ve personally seen them several times on active duty police and peace officers.
And FWIW, the governor is now essentially “taxing” gun and ammunition purchases- each background check (gun, ammunition or gun/ammunition) costs the dealer running the check and that cost is added to the customer’s bill.

And that would be a special tax on top of any local and state sales taxes.

[demkofour]

Originally Posted by stansdds

And that would be a special tax on top of any local and state sales taxes.

Yup!
$9.00 for guns, $2.50 for ammunition, per transaction. Surprisingly though, any combination of guns/ammunition, guns or ammunition is considered a single transaction and will incur the appropriate charge.
We had a customer come in recently who bought a few boxes of 12 ga Target loads. He came in later for more, and was “surprised” to discover a new background check and fee was required…

[ladder13]

This may be of help to some.

Exploring Options: How to buy Ammo in a Compliance state, such as New York! - Target Sports USA

[kozmic]

My wife suggested we hop across the NYS border into PA to buy some ammo last time we visited our son and d-i-l. The local gun shop was doing a booming business and had plenty of NY license plates in their parking lot.

[mike campbell]

On the previous Saturday, 3 people were illegally carrying firearms in the mall. Ten people were legally carrying concealed after supplying character references, passing criminal background checks, being fingerprinted, taking courses, paying fees and waiting months for the privilege to exercise their constitutional right.

Then the governor passed a law severely restricting where firearms could be lawfully carried. Every elected official in the state was complicit.

The next Saturday the same 3 people were still carrying firearms illegally at the mall. There were no upstanding citizens legally carrying at the mall.

Makes perfect sense to a liberal that the mall is now a safer place.

Kudos to those few establishments in NY that post signs welcoming legal carry.

[GypsmJim]

I was on vacation when this thread was started and thus missed it. Glad it came around again.

So, it has all come to fruition now. Knowing that it was imminent I made any needed purchases before the target date.

Our mountain cabin is only a mile north of the PA border. We go to Cleveland every January for the boat show and classic boat show. Thus, we are out of state periodically anyway. I have no problem donating tax money to PA or OH.

I will NOT tell any government what ammo I buy or how much of it.

[Roofuss]

I will NOT tell any government what ammo I buy or how much of it.

Nobody should have to, none of their business !!