A dangerous proposal in Congress

[delcrossv]

"Preventing Private Paramilitary Activity Act"

Just a moment...

PDF: https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/s...118s3589is.pdf

This bill would effectively "cancel" gun clubs, safety classes, tactical training, USPSA, IDPA and any number of activities we now pursue under Constitutionally recognized rights.

It could even be read to include things like martial arts training.

[jmace57]

So these activities are all prohibited...except for the government, who is free to do all these things.

[WCCPHD]

Appears to be an attempt to make illegal the very reason the Second Amendment was added to the US Constitution in the first place.

[NYlakesider]

Originally Posted by delcrossv

"Preventing Private Paramilitary Activity Act"

Just a moment...

PDF: https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/s...118s3589is.pdf

This bill would effectively "cancel" gun clubs, safety classes, tactical training, USPSA, IDPA and any number of activities we now pursue under Constitutionally recognized rights.

It could even be read to include things like martial arts training.

If I remember right many years back Martial Arts came out as a way for peasants to protect themselves as the ruling class did not allow them weapons. Certain tools like the Tonfa were made into a very formidable weapon by the farmers.

[robertrwalsh]

I am fully confident our elected masters want nothing more than to take care of us and protect us from ourselves and bad people. (gag gag cough cough puke)

[pantannojack]

Originally Posted by jmace57

So these activities are all prohibited...except for the government, who is free to do all these things.

And they may hire deputy assistants from who knows where.

[eb07]

Well Hawaii supreme Court just decided the Constitution doesn't apply so...

[Yaworski]

I wonder if it will ban PMCs like Constellis (formerly Academi formerly Blackwater).

[erikpolcrack]

Am I reading this bill wrong, or is it prohibiting magazines greater than 10 rounds?

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by erikpolcrack

I am reading this bill wrong, or is it prohibiting magazines greater than 10 rounds?

I don't think so, they bring up magazines because they want to scare people.

[lihpster]

Standard anti 2nd thinking. First you eliminate civilian training, then you argue that people shouldn't have guns because..... you can guess it.... wait for it..... "They aren't trained!"

[jem102]

Originally Posted by erikpolcrack

I am reading this bill wrong, or is it prohibiting magazines greater than 10 rounds?

Off topic but I spent a lot of time in Laporte/Dushore area many years ago. Great place, I miss it!

[biku324]

Before drifting off into conspiracy territory, know that New Mexico has had this law since 1990. No prosecutions, but it kept a number of domestic extremist groups from buying more land (several had started as other states criminalized exactly the same thing, leaving NM as a low-cost option) in the hinterlands and war-gaming against ZOG, One World Order, and other paranoid fantasies. In one circumstance I know of personally, we were getting reports of nighttime automatic weapons fire south of Bluewater Lake and later recovered discarded military items and trash as well as hundreds of fired 7.62x39, 5.56, and 7.62 NATO cases. The group didn't like our scrutiny and just evaporated.

Here's the 34 year-old NM law's most important part:

30-20A-3. Unlawful acts; penalty.
A. Any person who teaches or demonstrates the use, application or making of any firearm, destructive device or technique capable of causing injury or death to any person with the intent that the knowledge or skill taught, demonstrated or gained be unlawfully used in furtherance of a civil disorder is guilty of a fourth degree felony and shall be sentenced under the provisions of the Criminal Sentencing Act [Chapter 31, Article 18 NMSA 1978] to imprisonment for a definite term of eighteen months or, in the discretion of the sentencing court, to a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000), or both.

B. Any person who trains, practices or receives instruction in the use of any firearm, destructive device or technique capable of causing injury or death to any person with the intent that the knowledge or skill taught, demonstrated or gained be unlawfully used in furtherance of a civil disorder is guilty of a fourth degree felony and shall be sentenced under the provisions of the Criminal Sentencing Act to imprisonment for a definite term of eighteen months or, in the discretion of the sentencing court, to a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000), or both.

History: Laws 1990, ch. 66, § 3.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by biku324

No prosecutions, but it kept a number of domestic extremist groups from buying more land

Wasn't this country started by a domestic extremist group?

[biku324]

^^^^^^^No.

[CH4]

Since Bruen, many blue states have been working overtime at being creative on how to give the 2A and SCOTUS the bird. The efforts that the WA legislature and HI Supreme Court have put forth, are by far the craziest.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by biku324

^^^^^^^No.

Riots. Destruction of private property. Defiance of legal authorities. Shooting at the legally constituted authorities.

Sounds pretty extreme to me. In fact, it sounds like Portland.

[Telecaster]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

Wasn't this country started by a domestic extremist group?

Since they won, they were freedom fighters. If they’d lost they’d have been extremist insurrectionists.

The Founders are rolling in their graves.

[smoothshooter]

We’re doomed!
Doomed, I say!

[smoothshooter]

We are Doomed.

[Telecaster]

Ya don’t say!

[Telecaster]

Before Muslims it was other religious cults, and before that it was communists. There’s always a boogieman to keep us scared.

[ladder13]

Constitutional conservatives.

[biku324]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

Riots. Destruction of private property. Defiance of legal authorities. Shooting at the legally constituted authorities.

Sounds pretty extreme to me. In fact, it sounds like Portland.

Preceded by a decade of attempts to achieve representation by a substantial part of the population using every legitimate method, then a Declaration of Independence. The colonial rebels were not tiny groups of fringe paranoics.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by biku324

Preceded by a decade of attempts to achieve representation by a substantial part of the population using every legitimate method, then a Declaration of Independence.

They were colonists, the law did not allow for them to have representation. Rather than moving to England and getting elected to Parliament so they could pass laws, they rioted, destroyed property, and then shot at government agents.

A declaration of independence didn't carry much weight when the southern states said, "we're an independent country now." An evil, evil man committed to a bloody war that still impacts us today.

Just think, if we had stayed with England, the health care issue would be moot and we'd be drinking warm beer.

[NFrameFred]

Originally Posted by biku324

Before drifting off into conspiracy territory, . . . . . . . . . . . One World Order, and other paranoid fantasies. . . . . . . . . . .

Unfortunately the rebuttal of that drifts into a subject that is prohibited from discussion here. Suffice to say, many of us here are persuaded that the probability and reality of One World Order/Government is not some fanciful 'conspiracy theory' and especially not a 'paranoid fantasy'.

In my opinion, those who don't believe in that are living in a self serving delusional feel good fantasy and won't even admit it when it smacks them in the face. Because accepting that would necessitate confronting a whole other set of realities that a lot of folks take comfort in denying.

[biku324]

I had to laugh...you just don't hear these conspiracy theories outside the US!

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by biku324

I had to laugh...you just don't these conspiracy theories outside the US!

Probably because they don't have free speech.

[biku324]

And that's even more laughable!

[erikpolcrack]

Originally Posted by jem102

Off topic but I spent a lot of time in Laporte/Dushore area many years ago. Great place, I miss it!

We live east of Shunk, west of Camp Brule' in Fox Township, across the World's End State Park gorge from those towns. All our kids went to school in Laporte, and Dushore is one of two 'big towns' we shop in, the other being Canton, a bit closer to our north, but in Bradford County, not Sullivan. BTW, the totally unnecessary traffic light in Dushore is the only one in the county.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by biku324

And that's even more laughable!

Really? Try doing the Skokie march in Germany.

[Telecaster]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

Really? Try doing the Skokie march in Germany.

I think he meant here.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by biku324

And that's even more laughable!

What's laughable is ceaseless attempts to 'splain away every infringement, unconstitutional action and outright lawlessness of the .gov as no big deal... "it's all just conspiracy theory"!

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by Rodan

What's laughable is ceaseless attempts to 'splain away every infringement, unconstitutional action and outright lawlessness of the .gov as no big deal... "it's all just conspiracy theory"!

Isn't the right to be well-trained part of the 2nd?

[Telecaster]

Originally Posted by johngalt

Isn't the right to be well-trained part of the 2nd?

Nah, it’s just about hunting rifles.

Regulate:

to adjust (the amount of heat, sound, etc, of something) as required; control

to adjust (an instrument or appliance) so that it operates correctly

[riverrat38]

Originally Posted by johngalt

Isn't the right to be well-trained part of the 2nd?

That is what "well regulated" meant. The ability to use arms.
Words change, but ideas don't!

73,
Rick

[NFrameFred]

Originally Posted by Telecaster

Nah, it’s just about hunting rifles.

Regulate:

to adjust (the amount of heat, sound, etc, of something) as required; control

to adjust (an instrument or appliance) so that it operates correctly

I've often posited that position. Those who long for Big Daddy Goobermint to control everything with an iron fist they don't like or fear salivate at twisting the language with it's antiquated phrasing to mean things like "the militia is the National Guard" and other misapplied definitions. In that context, "well regulated" indeed inferred 'arms sighted in by adjustments coming by practice and familiarity with the weapons'; by a militia comprised of all the citizenry who could bear arms for the common defense.

It strains credulity under any stretch of the imagination that the people who had just risked their fortunes and very lives to rebel against an authoritarian juggernaut that tried to take their very means of armed resistance by unjust law would immediately turn around and advocate such for themselves and their fellow countrymen. The idea that could be the case defies common sense.

"Regulate" is an antique gunsmith term that is still used today to describe adjusting shotgun or other fixed sight barrels to the proper point of aim to coincide with the impact of the projectile(s).
"A well regulated militia" equals a defense force of our own citizens that knows how to shoot,maintaining willingness, preparation and proficiency.

[biku324]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

Really? Try doing the Skokie march in Germany.

You'll need a better example. Opponents block German neo-Nazi march in Mainz – DW – 07/16/2022

[Buford57]

Originally Posted by Yaworski

Riots. Destruction of private property. Defiance of legal authorities. Shooting at the legally constituted authorities.

Sounds pretty extreme to me. In fact, it sounds like Portland.

Or Massachusetts in the 1770s.

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by biku324

Preceded by a decade of attempts to achieve representation by a substantial part of the population using every legitimate method, then a Declaration of Independence. The colonial rebels were not tiny groups of fringe paranoics.

Ah, but they were viewed as such by those who ruled this country at that time. Plus, it was actually a fairly small percentage of the population in each of the several colonies that got the ball rolling.

YOUR definition of fringe paranoics probably doesn't match up with everyone else's.

In fact I view many of you and your state's legal views on this subject and on gun possession as on the fringe and paranoid, especially when viewed from the perspective of most of the non coastal western states.

[biku324]

Which parts? Unrestricted concealed carry in your car or on your property? Simple purchase with no permits and no waiting period? Open carry except where prohibited by local irdinance? Unrestricted purchase of ammo and reloading components online? 'Shall issue' CCL? 'Stand your ground' for criminal liability since 1912?

[steelslaver]

As a citizen of this country with no criminal record with a valid permit from my state off residence, I am not allowed to carry a viable means of self protection upon my person in your state.

That part right there is HUGE

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by biku324

You'll need a better example. Opponents block German neo-Nazi march in Mainz – DW – 07/16/2022

That was the "New Strong Party."

However, we have "The German penal code prohibits publicly denying the Holocaust and disseminating Nazi propaganda, both off- and online. This includes sharing images such as swastikas, wearing an SS uniform and making statements in support of Hitler."

That's not freedom of speech.

[biku324]

Perhaps your state should join the compact we have with 23 other states. We DO believe in states' rights, correct?

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by biku324

Perhaps your state should join the compact we have with 23 other states. We DO believe in states' rights, correct?

Yes WE do, it is just that you and your state do not actually believe that the Bill of Rights applies. Your fine with restriction free speech, the right to bear arms and the freedom of assembly. I am not

I also believe your state entered into an agreement with all the states to obey those.

Also the laws of your state, that you quoted most certainly would have applied to the actions of the founding fathers. The second amendment was NOT written about duck hunting, but defending ourselves from both individuals and oppressive government.

While I am not a big fan of most of the militia organizations that exist, I do believe that they have every right to exist under the constitution.

[biku324]

Your opinion is unrelated to facts in this matter.

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by biku324

Your opinion is unrelated to facts in this matter.

Restricting, gun rights, free speech and assembly is exactly the subject of the bill in question,

Your willingness to accept it is only your opinion which flies in the face of the Bill of Rights

[BAM-BAM]

When you aren't winning the hearts and minds...... Gaslight!

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

In the 1930s the erstwhile "liberal democracies" of Western Europe banned the wearing of political uniforms to thwart the home grown fascist parties.
Using fascist methods to fight fascism.
In my 4 years in the Army 1967-1971-and I was a Green Beret-I met only one NCO who was a gun guy, nobody into martial arts/hand to hand combat.
These "militia" groups do a better job of training than the Army does IMHO.
"Well regulated" refers to drill and discipline, the drills were often called "tactics" because that was how they actually fought. Baron Von Steuben's great accomplishment was that he got the Main Army drilled and the drill was standardized. Everybody was on the same sheet of music.
The militiaman provided his own firearm, kept it at home. It was HIS. The only requirement was that it was supposed to be .75 caliber, like the Brown Bess. How much difference that made with smoothbores...?
I have seen one reenactor show up as militiaman with a fowling piece, not "standard" but very authentic.

[ISCS Yoda]

There is another factor at play here.......................

These people are terrorized - OF US!!!!!!!!!!!!!