Quote:
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
Well, if that were the case, and if whatever factors and circumstances were involved in making that determination were the primary reason to select a service cartridge ... then you'd think we'd be seeing more of it in LE & military, usage, wouldn't you?
|
Seems you never been involved in even low level politics, office or government. If that statement were true, we would not have had the M16 problems, not have went to a P92 as standard side arm, but we needed to renew the lease on a USAF base in Italy, and I hate to think of the number of different aircraft the US either took or passed up due to politics.
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Fastbolt:There's no reason for 10mm enthusiasts to find it unpleasant or insulting that seemingly a number of folks who shoot semiauto pistols seem to find the felt recoil, muzzle blast and overall controllability of a 'full-power' 10mm load to be a bit on the undesired end of things.
|
True, and 10mm is my choise after many years a 45ACP man. I like the flat trejectory unavailable in a 180G plus 45ACP round.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
I'll grant that the 10mm is seemingly enjoying some apparent renewed interest among the firearms makers, and not just in a revolver platforms which was primarily intended for hunting enthusiasts. It's the major ammunition makers who need to come back into the fold and offer some upgraded defensive ammunition for the new (and old) platforms. I wouldn't be surprised to find some of the smaller ammunition makers enjoying this resurgence.
|
True enough I guess, but it is some what like saying which came first the chicken or the egg. Which needs to come first gun or ammo.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
I've qualified a handful of CCW folks who carried 10mm pistols, including G20's, a couple of Colt models and S&W 1006 pistols. Virtually without exception these folks all exhibited somewhat slower recoil recovery and recoil management when observed alongside everyone else at the same time, shooting all manner of other cartridges. If that reflects the 'average' lawful CCW person, then wouldn't it be prudent to consider that maybe some folks might ... just might ... be better served with a cartridge which allowed them something of an advantage in these potentially critical issues.
|
That just goes back to traning and firing the gun enough, most CCW civilians don't just because of the cost of ammo.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
When you consider that CCW folks have generally gone to the trouble to buy their own firearms, equipment and ammunition ... compared to most LE who have it issued to them ... then I'd offer that it might be a valid concern to adopt a defensive service caliber, or a selection of calibers, which might prove better suited to the wide range of folks who enter LE work.
|
That does sound kind of silly to me, unless I am misreading, that a person should only by what LEO use.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
Not everyone wants a 'heavy caliber' sidearm, nor is everyone likely to be able to be qualified with one.
|
That is true, but I have seen a lot of LEO's in years past that were helped or fudged to get them through the shooting section of the LEO course
Quote:
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
While felt recoil may not be a problem when it comes to target shooting or performing a controlled pair or 'triple' shot string on a static range ... or during a pleasant afternoon at the local outdoor shooting venue ... sometimes controllability, recovery and even safe handling issues may arise when someone is forced to complete a dynamic, timed course of fire which can involve conditions including, movement, shooting while moving, shooting weak-handed, engaging multiple targets in reduced light conditions which require judgment for Shoot/No-Shoot decisions, etc., etc..
|
Again most civilian agencies do not do enough arms training. That is why LEO's will sometimes fire 40 or 50 rounds or more at a person and only have a couple of hits if any.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
How many folks do you know who find shooting 10mm pistols to offer them an advantage when competing in IDPA or other competitive venues? If the felt recoil and controllability wasn't an issue, what else would mitigate against it being used with some frequency in events where speed, controllability & accuracy were useful, even if only in winning against time & paper?
|
People who shoot those courses generally have hand loaded lighter loads to help control recoil, be it 9mm, 38 Super, 45ACP or 10mm caliber.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fastbolt:
Hey, I have nothing against the caliber. I may pick up one of the new Colts at some point. I've always thought that if Colt improved their platform compared to their previous offering, or S&W or Ruger would introduce a robust defensive-type pistol model chambered in the 10mm, that I'd want to get one.
It wouldn't necessarily replace my many other defensive weapons, though. I just happen to think the 10mm was an interesting cartridge to have been developed in American handgun history.
I also liked the .41 Magnum, for that matter.
That didn't remain considered a viable LE/defensive cartridge for very many years,however, either. Still a good cartridge, though.
|
Don't BS us BS'ers
PS: The 41 revolver died early death due to rise of high compasity autoloading pistols and IMHO the rush to have officers make up defiencies of accuracy by high volume of fire. I mean the LEO went from carrying 18 rounds on average to 40 to 60 rounds in just 3 magazines.