.32-20 factory ammo in M & P revolvers

David LaPell · Nov 15, 2009

I picked up a M & P revolver in .32-20 revolver, serial number into the 100000 range after they started heat treating the cylinders. Is the modern Winchester ammo (100 grain lead bullet) safe to use in these revolvers, in the S & W Standard catalog, there is a discplaimer about using ammo regulated for rifles in these revolvers, but is that for the earlier, non-heat treated cylinder guns?

will5a1 · Nov 15, 2009

I use modern ammo in mine, its my understanding that a high-velocity/higher pressure rifle only variation of this cartridge was loaded until sometime after WWII but current production ammo is safe for use in older revolvers.

BreakerDan · Nov 15, 2009

All recent factory manufacture 32-20 with a lead or soft point is fine.
The rifle only loads looked like full metal jackets with a tiny hollowpoint
on the nose and was last made in the 1960s. The only pistol that could fire them safely was the Colt SAA. The load you mentioned would be excellent. Handloading for this round really brings out a lot of potential. Modern 32-20 ammo is about like 32 S&W Long in performance- 100 gr slug at 750fps.

Alk8944 · Nov 16, 2009

David LaPell said:
I picked up a M & P revolver in .32-20 revolver, serial number into the 100000 range after they started heat treating the cylinders. Is the modern Winchester ammo (100 grain lead bullet) safe to use in these revolvers, in the S & W Standard catalog, there is a discplaimer about using ammo regulated for rifles in these revolvers, but is that for the earlier, non-heat treated cylinder guns?

The "Rifle" ammunition they were referring to was the "Hi Speed" (or similar) 80 gr. round-nose hollow-point load intended for the 1892 Winchester, not the 100 or 115 gr. loads which have always been suitable for revolvers. The 80 gr. load hasn't been made since probably before WWII and is not likely to be found. The boxes were clearly marked "Not for use in revolvers".

S&W models are defined by specific parameters, caliber is one of these. A .38 Special fixed sight K-frame revolver is a M&P, a .32-20 isn't. S&W referred to the .32-20 as the "Winchester Model". This is one point Mike P. is wrong on.

BUFF · Nov 18, 2009

Alk8944 said:
S&W models are defined by specific parameters, caliber is one of these. A .38 Special fixed sight K-frame revolver is a M&P, a .32-20 isn't. S&W referred to the .32-20 as the "Winchester Model". This is one point Mike P. is wrong on.

Actually, while the .38Special was referred to as the ".38 hand Ejector Militasry & Police," the .32-20 version of the 6 shot K frame was called the ".32/20 Hand Ejector" by the factory, according to Roy Jinks' books.

BreakerDan · Nov 18, 2009

Alk8944 said:
The "Rifle" ammunition they were referring to was the "Hi Speed" (or similar) 80 gr. round-nose hollow-point load intended for the 1892 Winchester, not the 100 or 115 gr. loads which have always been suitable for revolvers. The 80 gr. load hasn't been made since probably before WWII and is not likely to be found. The boxes were clearly marked "Not for use in revolvers".

S&W models are defined by specific parameters, caliber is one of these. A .38 Special fixed sight K-frame revolver is a M&P, a .32-20 isn't. S&W referred to the .32-20 as the "Winchester Model". This is one point Mike P. is wrong on.

The last rifle only loads were actually made into the late 1960s for the 32-20. I collect these cartiridges and have boxes from both Remington and Winchester. Remington called the Hi Speed and Winchester called them Super Speed and Western used "WHV." Remingtons from the 60s have no pistol warning on them even though I have chrono them from a rifle at 2000 fps. I have found some of them still available on the internet or remote locations. As everyone has told you, they are round-nosed metal hollowpoints. Pressure was at about 25000 on them and are only for 92 Winchester and 94 Marlin. The only pistol they were safe in is a Colt SAA (ones made for smokeless powder ONLY) because the SAA is rated for 357 Mag which generates far more pressure than any 32-20 Hi Speed load.

As long as you load any moden lead or JSP load you are fine. The Lubaloy Winchester loads are okay as well and often turn up.
They are simply a copper coated load bullet.

These loads are safe in your S&W:

Remington "Express" 32-20 100gr Lead product code R32201
Winchester Super X 32-20 100gr lead product code 32201-my favorite
Winchester Super X 32-20 100 gr JSP code 32202
Ultramax cowboy 32-20 115gr lead-

The product code for the rifle only loads was 32203.

Alk8944 · Nov 18, 2009

BUFF said:
Actually, while the .38Special was referred to as the ".38 hand Ejector Militasry & Police," the .32-20 version of the 6 shot K frame was called the ".32/20 Hand Ejector" by the factory, according to Roy Jinks' books.

Buff,

Actually the "generic", if you will, name of the Military & Police is .38 Hand Ejector, Model of 1905 (or 1902 depending). It was named Military & Police. If you will refer to McHenry & Roper, basically the standard reference for S&W before the later books by Jinks etal, the .32-20 HE was referred to as the "Winchester Model" as I said. I suspect this came from the early barrel marking on these of ".32 Winchester Ctg".

Note that McHenry was the defacto "S&W Historian" years before that was an official osition within the company.

Skip C · Nov 20, 2009

First timer. I am looking for information on the revolver that my father carried during WW 11. I was told that it was a Spanish police revolver. It is a copy of I think a S & W Miltary & Police 5 screw with a lanyard ring on the bottom of the grip. On the barrel is Trocaclaaramzabalyc-Eibar((Espana) All letter in caps. The caliber is 32-20. Thank for any information you can provide.

Skip C

BreakerDan · Nov 20, 2009

Skip C said:
First timer. I am looking for information on the revolver that my father carried during WW 11. I was told that it was a Spanish police revolver. It is a copy of I think a S & W Miltary & Police 5 screw with a lanyard ring on the bottom of the grip. On the barrel is Trocaclaaramzabalyc-Eibar((Espana) All letter in caps. The caliber is 32-20. Thank for any information you can provide.

Skip C

Many, many copies of S&W revolvers were made in Spain. Yours is most likely a copy of the M&P. Some range from excellent quality to very poor. Eibar was a very common copy and was fair in quality. 32-20 was a very popular caliber back then. Make sure a gunsmith checks it before you shoot it- some of the S&W spanish copies are not even safe to shoot. Hope that helps.

mel023 · Dec 8, 2009

Not to prolong this thread any more than necessary but I have another question regarding .32-20 ammo. I have a couple of boxes of "private label" .32-20 ammo which are loaded with a 100gr Rainier FMJ. I bought them on GB. The seller said they would hit about 1800fps. They work great in my Marlin 1894CL but I would like to get a handgun for the load as well. Short of getting a cartridge pressure tested and I have no idea where I might get that done, would any of the S&W revolvers in .32WCF handle this load given that it's a bit slower than the Remington and Winchester loads mentioned above?

Thanks guys! Always appreciate the sage advice I get on this forum.

will5a1 · Dec 8, 2009

mel023,

That sounds too hot too me, I would not run those through my K frame .32-20.

powert · Dec 11, 2009

Just joined the forum after reading this thread. Have several handguns and a friend (who isn't into guns) recently gave me a 32-20 hand ejector he found cleaning out an Aunt's house. The serial is 32xxx and from what I have gathered was made in 1906. He is sure it hadn't been shot in 60 years or so, though his Aunt stopped a burglar and held him for the police with it back in the 60s.

Anyway, after cleaning it, I ordered some Remington "Express" 32-20 100gr Lead product code R32201 and they came today. I had to walk to the barn earlier and couldn't resist trying it out. What a sweet shooter. Recoils like a cap gun and is a barrel of fun. Very accurate gun. Going from shooting a .357 magnum to the 32-20 is like a recoil vacation.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for letting me borrow some knowledge about this weapon.

BreakerDan · Dec 12, 2009

powert said:
Just joined the forum after reading this thread. Have several handguns and a friend (who isn't into guns) recently gave me a 32-20 hand ejector he found cleaning out an Aunt's house. The serial is 32xxx and from what I have gathered was made in 1906. He is sure it hadn't been shot in 60 years or so, though his Aunt stopped a burglar and held him for the police with it back in the 60s.

Anyway, after cleaning it, I ordered some Remington "Express" 32-20 100gr Lead product code R32201 and they came today. I had to walk to the barn earlier and couldn't resist trying it out. What a sweet shooter. Recoils like a cap gun and is a barrel of fun. Very accurate gun. Going from shooting a .357 magnum to the 32-20 is like a recoil vacation.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for letting me borrow some knowledge about this weapon.

They are fun to shoot. I have more 32-20s than anything else. The
Remington 32201 is a good load for the gun. Some people have accuracy problems with that load as I have, but sounds like your gun likes them.
I once killed a full grown cow (euthanasia for down sick cow) with
a Colt SAA and the Remington 32-20 100gr lead- very humane end, never knew what hit her.

bmcgilvray · Dec 12, 2009

I chronographed some Winchester 100 grain lead flat point ammunition from my 4-inch Smith & Wesson .32-20 a couple of years ago. It managed 729 fps.

The .32-20 is one of the more rewarding cartridges to hand load. It is capable of great accuracy and a bit more power without undo stress to the revolver.

WILDCATT · Dec 19, 2009

S&W 32/20

warning those spanish guns made for 32/20 would crack the top strap.I was in Memphis and a gun shop had a number with the top strap cracked .
I onece bought a Smith that had the chamber blown out.and top strap gone. paid $3 for it. I was going to replace the cylinder and weld a new strap on. smith did not have cylinders.so welded the chamber and cut new lock . I shot it with reloads I made on my win tool. which I used for my 73 win.

walnutred · Dec 21, 2009

Skip C said:
First timer. I am looking for information on the revolver that my father carried during WW 11. I was told that it was a Spanish police revolver. It is a copy of I think a S & W Miltary & Police 5 screw with a lanyard ring on the bottom of the grip. On the barrel is Trocaclaaramzabalyc-Eibar((Espana) All letter in caps. The caliber is 32-20. Thank for any information you can provide.

Skip C

Your revolver may or may not be 32-20 as well. Many of those are actually in 8mm Lebel Revolver. The 8 Lebel projectile is a little larger in diameter than 32-20, so a 32-20 can usually be chambered and fired, but not with much accuracy.

PrairieDog · Dec 23, 2011

32-20 for Police Positive Special

Hi All;

I am a new member but have been around the hand gunning fraternity for awhile. I've got a question regarding ammo that is safe for a 1920 vintage 32-20 Colt Police Positive Special.

I have a friend who wants to shoot his grandfather"s PPS but research has shown that ammunition loaded for pistols seems to be fairly rare other than downloaded handloads or cowboy action loads.

He happens to have a box of recent mfgr Remington "Express" loads; product #R32201.

I have read in this thread where they are deemed safe for use in a 1905 Hand Ejector; but obviously my question is whether these loads would be safe in a Colt Police Positive Special in good shape with a tight lockup and good timing.

I would hate to see a nice pistol like this damaged by too hot a load.

Acheck of the remington site shows 1210fps from a 24" test barrel. Allowing for velocity loss from barrel 18" shorter I am estimating approx 950fps.

Would this ee too hot for this revolver?

I would expect factory loads to be downloaded to accomodate
older pistols and weaker rifles like 1873 Winchesters and the like.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated and cheerfully accepted.

Thanks.

Alk8944 · Dec 23, 2011

PrairieDog said:
Hi All;

I am a new member but have been around the hand gunning fraternity for awhile. I've got a question regarding ammo that is safe for a 1920 vintage 32-20 Colt Police Positive Special.

I have a friend who wants to shoot his grandfather"s PPS but research has shown that ammunition loaded for pistols seems to be fairly rare other than downloaded handloads or cowboy action loads.

He happens to have a box of recent mfgr Remington "Express" loads; product #R32201.

I have read in this thread where they are deemed safe for use in a 1905 Hand Ejector; but obviously my question is whether these loads would be safe in a Colt Police Positive Special in good shape with a tight lockup and good timing.

I would hate to see a nice pistol like this damaged by too hot a load.

Acheck of the remington site shows 1210fps from a 24" test barrel. Allowing for velocity loss from barrel 18" shorter I am estimating approx 950fps.

Would this ee too hot for this revolver?

I would expect factory loads to be downloaded to accomodate
older pistols and weaker rifles like 1873 Winchesters and the like.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated and cheerfully accepted.

Thanks.

Read the above comments. They apply equally to Colt SAA, Police Positive Special and Army Special revolvers, and the 1873 Winchester

Babalooie · Dec 25, 2011

FYI from Midway USA's web site:

BLACK HILLS .32-20
BULLET WEIGHT: 115 GRAINS
MUZZLE VELOCITY: 800 FPS

GOEX BLACK DAWGE CARTRIDGES (BLACK POWDER AMMO)
BULLET WEIGHT: 115 GRAINS
MUZZLE VELOCITY: 820 FPS

ULTRAMAX
BULLET WEIGHT: 115 GRAINS
MUZZLE VELOCITY: 1050 FPS

REMINGTON EXPRESS R32201
BULLET WEIGHT: 100 GRAINS
MUZZLE VELOCITY: 1210 FPS
MUZZLE ENERGY: 325 FT. LBS.

WINCHESTER SUPER-X X32201
BULLET WEIGHT: 100 GRAINS
MUZZLE VELOCITY: 1210 FPS
MUZZLE ENERGY: 325 FT. LBS.

I have an older box of the Remington ammo that has a statement on both box flaps: "(FOR USE IN ALL REVOLVERS & RIFLES)"

The current box of the same ammo just says: "EXPRESS RIFLE"

.32-20 factory ammo in M & P revolvers

David LaPell

Member

will5a1

US Veteran

BreakerDan

Member

Alk8944

US Veteran

BUFF

SWCA Member, Absent Comrade

BreakerDan

Member

Alk8944

US Veteran

Skip C

BreakerDan

Member

mel023

Member

will5a1

US Veteran

powert

BreakerDan

Member

bmcgilvray

Member

WILDCATT

Member

walnutred

US Veteran

PrairieDog

Alk8944

US Veteran

Babalooie

US Veteran

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