I need to find a good SD load for my Bersa Thunder .380. I know this has been discussed here before but mostly about tiny pocket guns with shorter barrels. What would work well with the longer 3.5 inch barrel of the Bersa?

This recent long thread may be of interest:

.380 load (Calling Erich)

Anything that works good in a short barrel will work better in a longer one. I carry Federal Hydra Shocks in my Walther PPK/s, have some Remington GS bullets that shoot well too. Just about any of the JHP's from the major companies will be good ammo. Shoot enough to make sure they feed reliably and your good to go.

Ah, one of my favorite threads!

You might want to refer to the recent article in American Rifleman also, where they tested a handfull of .380 guns and loads.

They report 1042fps from Speer Dold Dot out of a 3.66" Walther PK380, that should make it very effective. I use them in my Kel-Tec P3AT.

Try Flop-Shank's thread too: Perma-Gel test results
There is great info in there.

__________________
Fast is fine;accurate is final

Thanks guys. Wow that was a lot of info in that thread. Guess I have got a lot to process now. I have not finished reliability testing for the Bersa yet. Only about 350 rounds so far (all fmj) due to .380 ammo being hard to find and harder to afford. Really would like to have 500 at least before I trust my life to it. So for now I will stick with my sw9ve. 1000+ rounds and not a hiccup yet.

If it were me, I would carry ball.
It will give better penetration
and in that category the 380 HP
needs all it can get.

Erich didn't like the idea, but I've loaded my Colt Mustang with HP and ball every other round. If you double tap, the BG gets one of each. I use Corbon.

I agree. Also, most guns will feed ball without problems; HP's, sometimes not so much.

Federal American Eagle 95 grain FMJ in my Kel-Tec chronographs at 795 fps; not a bomb, but nothing anyone would want stuck in them, either. Good luck.

I carry the same bersa once in a while I like the Win white box flat nose FMJ

Pete

I carry Glasers in my Kel-Tec P3-AT and CZ-82 (9mm Mak). According to the old Marshall-Sanow reports of actual gunfights , it's the best 1-shot stopper in .380. Yeah , they're expensive. They ain't for target (they are accurate and hit to point of aim) or plinking. Break yer gun in and practice with a few hundred FMJs or whatevers cheap enough. Run 1 mag thru to check function , then load yer gun and spare mag. Like all other top-shelf ammo (they're now made by Cor-Bon) , they're sealed at the bullet and primer , so sweat , oil , moisture are not gonna hurt it. It don't go bad.

W-W Silvertips rated highly too. These reports were done several years ago , and many of todays trick new bullets weren't around. But flesh and bone haven't changed. What worked then still works today. Until actual shooting reports are compiled , everything else is just PR.

There are just so many things wrong with this statement.

Okay, so Erich, what's wrong with it? Other than the fact that it was Mag-Safe, not Glaser, and the reports were often not of actual gunfights, and "one shot" didn't always mean one shot, and "stop" didn't always mean stop, and well, what am I overlooking?

Heck, I'm a Marshall fan, and I agree with Erich.

If your gun runs 100% on Speer Gold Dots, look no further.

If your gun runs 100% on Speer Gold Dots, look no further.[/QUOTE]


I haven't been able to find any GDs as of late, but just checked and Ammotogo has them. Just ordered a couple boxes.

Thanks for all the info guys.

+1 with Erich.

I'd stay away from Glaser & Magsafe and I wouldn't buy into the "one shot stop statistics." Too many faults with the whole thing, although I respect Marshall for his service, and his efforts. By all means, carry what you like though.

FWIW, we carried a round that had a "97% one shot stop" rating. Guess how many one shot stops we had in about 10 OISs? NONE, even with "center of mass" shots it took many rounds, sometimes numbering in the double digits. After the change to other service ammo we saw much improved results, only a few rounds needed. I remember only 1 real "one shot stop" which (was with the new ammo) and it was a close range head shot.

Anything is better than nothing but, in the .380 caliber your best bet would be a flat nosed FMJ as long as it feeds reliably. If it doesn't feed go with a round nose FMJ.

Deep penetration should be your concern.

Hornady Critical defense, Fiocchi Extrema, Buffalo Bore +P Gold Dot and Speer Gold Dot are all good for over 12" in Perma-Gel, heavy cloth or not.

This is from DocGKR an expert in the ballistics.

"Many small, easily concealed semi-automatic pistols which are recommended for law enforcement backup or concealed carry use fire .380 ACP or smaller bullets. While these small caliber handgun bullets can produce fatal wounds,they are less likely to produce the rapid incapacitation necessary in law enforcement or self-defense situations.

Handguns chambered in .380 ACP are small, compact, and generally easy to carry. Unfortunately, testing has shown that they offer inadequate performance for self-defense and for law enforcement use whether on duty as a back-up weapon or for off duty carry. The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not acceptable for law enforcement use and most savvy agencies prohibit them."

While this may not include some of the more recent loads, it's sound advice.

In the case of inadequate expansion, the bullet will tumble and continue base forward acting like a wadcutter. It will definately penetrate as well as FMJ, I would think. I agree. .380 is a cheezy caliber. The use of FMJ vs. JHPs is, IMO, "six of one half dozen of the other". My friend Erich and I fall in different camps. Let me be the first to say that he may be right on this one. All the same, I feel better about the Gold Dots in my P3AT. I carry something bigger if I have a choice.If those loads include DPX and Speer Gold Dot, that says a lot.

KCabbage, that was a cogent and logical post, so don't misconstrue mine as an argument. We just think a little different on this one, that's all. We must use whatever we have the most faith in.

I can't get my wife to carry anything bigger than her NAA .380. She did let me pick the ammo, and she carries Remington Express FMJ.

I've had .380 target ammo come apart in my pocket - the top round of CCI Blazer in a mag disassembled itself so that I had a bullet and powder in my pocket and an empty case as the first round in the mag. That sort of soured me towards carrying target ammo for SD.

I sure wish the Remington was available with nickel-plated brass.

__________________
VIVERE MILITARE EST

Every time I read the words “one shot stop” in regard handgun caliber/projectile choices I cringe. There are too many variables in a gunfight for such a calculation to ever be accurately made.

How about this; in 1848 a man had a 13 lb bar of steel three feet long and 1.25 inches in diameter blow through the bottom of his head and out the top. He never lost consciousness, was basically ambulatory while waiting for a physician to attend to him and survived until 1860. (Phineas Gage was the man’s name. Phineas Gage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ).

The only projectile that might provide a “one shot stop” with any certainty would be a supersonic bowling ball striking center of mass.

Rich

Buffalo bore plus p are a little stout for some. Gold dot and these xtp
have their fans...

380 XTP ballistic gel test - YouTube

I don't have any stop or penetration data, but logic suggests that the magtech 95 JSP should give the weight and penetration of FMJ and the soft lead tip some expansion like a JHP, and the bullet looks like an XTP with the tip filled with lead.

These are available as a commercial load in 9mm, with a spec of 1345 fps and 380 # energy from a 4" bbl. The bullet is available as a component and I chrono'd some .380 loads from my Bersa at 995 fps with 3.4 N-320.

I'd take Gary Roberts' advice over that of anyone else in the area of ballistics. 2 of the women in my office have 380s; I did not get a vote. I bought then each 40 rounds of Corbon DPX, told them to buy a lot of ball (FMJ) and make sure their pistols work well with it (a few hundred rounds) and keep that in the magazine, with the DPX in the chamber.

If they had bought 9s I would have been able to come up with a variety of good service ammo. However, both of them are lean and would have a heck of a time carrying anything bigger than these 380s with decent concealment and access.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.