Are Copper Bullets the Rave of the Future for Self-Defense?

147_Grain · Dec 10, 2010

Since most ammo manufactures are using Research and Development resources to perfect copper HP bullets, here's a list of self-defense loads for all to consider. While this list is FYI only, please post your thoughts about copper bullets in general.

Randy Brooks of Barnes first introduced solid copper (with zinc alloy) in 1979 and last year introduced a Military / LE copper bullet line-up featuring deep penetration and good expansion characteristics.

History | Barnes Bullets

Shortly thereafter in 2010, Hornady introduced their own in-house designed Critical Defense FTX load using a polymer-filled HP cavity bullet that features expansion in heavy cloth and about 10" of penetration.

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Product Line :: Critical Defense®

I'm not necessarily recommending copper bullets over other proven HP loads, but feel free to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the new rave towards copper projectiles for self-defense.

Example:

A major disadvantage is that copper is extremely expensive; another is the lack of testing and perfection across all caliber line-ups.

A few advantages are that copper weighs less than lead by volume in a regular HP. In comparing bullets of the same length, a higher velocity is obtained with copper than with lead. Copper HP's can also be made razor sharp for cutting like Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T loads are with reverse taper talon / bullet technology. Copper bullets are surprisingly deeper penetrators than normally imagined.

Manufactures are now fine-tuning copper HP loads using various alloys to find a near perfect load the public will want to buy.

147_Grain · Dec 10, 2010

Current Copper HP Self-Defense Loads on the Market

************ 38 Special ************

Double Tap:
** 110-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP Copper Jacketed HP @ 1,125 fps in 1.875” barrel.
Double Tap 110-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP

Corbon – Dakota Ammo:
** 110-gr. +P DPX [Barnes XPB] Copper HP (DPX38110-20)
See also: 38 Special: Hornady FTX vs. Speer 135-gr. Short Barrel vs. CorBon 110-gr. DPX

************ 9mm Luger / 9X19 ************

Double Tap:
* 115-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP Copper Jacketed HP

Corbon – Dakota Ammo:
* 115-gr. +P DPX [Barnes XPB] Copper Jacketed HP @ 1,250 fps (DPX09115-20)

Black Hills:
* 115-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP

Federal Tactical – Barnes XPB:
115-gr. Barnes XPB Expander Copper Jacketed HP @ 1,140 fps. (T9XB1)
LE - Tactical Barnes XPB

************ 9x23 Winchester ************

Corbon DPX:
125-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP HP @ 1,350 fps (DPX9X23125-20)

************ 38 Super: ************

Double Tap:
115-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP Copper Jacketed HP @ 1,425 fps in (1911) 5” barrel.
DoubleTap Ammunition

Corbon DPX:
125-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP HP @ 1,350 fps (DPX38X125-20)
38 Super Auto Plus P 125gr Self-Defense DPX | COR®BON/Glaser Self Defense | Dakota Ammo

************ 357 Sig ************

Corbon – Dakota Ammo:
** 125-gr. +P DPX [Barnes XPB] Copper Jacketed HP @ 1,200 fps (DPX357SIG125-20)

************ 357 Mag ************

Federal:
** 140-gr. Barnes Expander (P357XB1)
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/WebData/2010_FederalLECatalog.pdf

Corbon – Dakota Ammo:
** 125-gr. DPX [Barnes XPB] Copper HP (DPX357125-20)

************ 40 S&W ************

Black Hills:
** 155-gr. Barnes Tac-XP Copper Jacketed HP @ 1,100 fps
Factory New Handgun Calibers | Black Hills Ammunition | American Made Excellence Since 1981

Federal Tactical – Barnes XPB:
155-gr. Barnes XPB Expander Copper Jacketed HP @ 1,030 fps. (T40XB1)
LE - Tactical Barnes XPB

Barnes:
** 155-gr. XPB Copper Jacketed HP
Barnes Tactical XP: 155-gr.

Corbon – Dakota Ammo:
140-gr. +P DPX [Barnes XPB] Copper Jacketed HP (DPX40140-20)

************ 10mm (FBI) Auto ************

Double Tap:
** 155-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP All Copper Jacketed HP

Corbon – Dakota Ammo:
** 155-gr. +P DPX [Barnes XPB] Copper Jacketed HP (DPX10155-20)

************ 45 ACP ************

Corbon – Dakota Ammo:
** 185-gr. +P DPX [Barnes XPB] Copper Jacketed HP (DPX45185-20)

Federal LE Tactical: LE Only
** 185-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP (T45XB1) @ 1,030 fps.

Black Hills:
** 185-gr. +P Barnes Tac-XP Copper Jacketed HP

Barnes:
** 185-gr. +P XPB Copper Jacketed HP
160-gr. +P XPB Copper Jacketed HP

xcop · Dec 10, 2010

Hi Steve! Posting here now I see.

Andy Griffith · Dec 10, 2010

Copper is far to expensive to buy in bullets.

Nothing wrong with it at all, as they seem to provide good results- but I can't seeing paying twice as much or more as comparable premium lead or jacketed factory loadings- which are already far too expensive. The economics of it doesn't make sense to me, based upon performance. $30 to $40 a box for 20 rounds just can't get me interested to part with hard earned cash at all, especially when a box of 50 FBI loads from Remington (in .38 Special) are around $33- less than half the price.

cp1969 · Dec 10, 2010

I have no use for it in handgun bullets.

xcop · Dec 11, 2010

error

BTW Steve this part of your statement is incorrect " takes up less space than a regular HP." A copper bullet such as the Barnes 110 grain 38/357 bullet is longer than a lead or bonded/jacketed bullet of the same grain weight. The 110gr Barnes will be roughly the length of a 125gr bullet. The 125gr Barnes for 38/357 is approximately the same length as a 140gr bullet. If you go to:hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 357 Magnum 125 gr DPX Ammo.htm there is a picture.

Pisgah · Dec 11, 2010

Solid copper bullets are just one more way to skin a cat. I suppose having another way to accomplish the job is a good thing, but from a practical standpoint I don't see a whole lot of advantage to it -- except from the standpoint of manufacturers having a new "gee whiz" to market. There's really not a heckuva lot you can accomplish with a solid copper HP that you can't get done with a good cast semiwadcutter.

ScottJ · Dec 11, 2010

I always thought the solid copper bullets were to get ahead of possible lead bans.

All I have to say about that is molon labe:

sheriffoconee · Dec 12, 2010

in order to be effective, copper has to be guaranteed to expand at handgun velocities.
No thank you. Lead works for me.

Dogguy · Dec 12, 2010

sheriffoconee said:
in order to be effective, copper has to be guaranteed to expand at handgun velocities.
No thank you. Lead works for me.

From everything I've read on the subject (as opposed to everything there is to know about it), CorBon's DPX handgun ammo performs pretty much perfectly. It penetrates deeply and expands fully. The only problem I have with it is the price of the stuff. At about $30 per box of 20, it would cost about $90 just to load three 15 round 9mm magazines with DPX. For me, that pretty much rule out any ammo for function confirmation and occasional training with carry ammo.

sheriffoconee · Dec 12, 2010

Dogguy said:
From everything I've read on the subject (as opposed to everything there is to know about it), CorBon's DPX handgun ammo performs pretty much perfectly. It penetrates deeply and expands fully. The only problem I have with it is the price of the stuff. At about $30 per box of 20, it would cost about $90 just to load three 15 round 9mm magazines with DPX. For me, that pretty much rule out any ammo for function confirmation and occasional training with carry ammo.

I am waitin' for them to dig a couple hundred of them outta bad guys before I believe what I read about them...

tennexplorer · Dec 17, 2010

I think one problem is going to be cost in the long run. A couple of weeks ago I read copper was about $8400 a ton and was expected to cross $9000 shortly. Also read copper mining is becoming more difficult as the rich deposits have played out and the cost for mining is skyrocketing. Long term thoughts are that it will exceed $12000 a ton. Now each bullet we shoot is small but taken in aggregate, demand for pure copper bullets could drive cost even higher. I would not be surprised to see the Winchester Silvertip technology resurrected and improved, perhaps using a bismuth core. That is also expensive but may be competitive if copper performs as expected.

WR Moore · Dec 18, 2010

There's several issues causing the interest in all copper bullets. Concerns about toxic materials is one-if you've never had the EPA wailing about possible lead contamination of water sources from your range impact area, feel blessed! It's one of the reasons driving non-toxic practice/training ammunition. The last training school I went to traded my conventional ammo round for round for non-toxic frangible. I made out financially on the deal and still have a stash of the non-toxic.

The other is that copper bullet seem to be fairly easy to develop with deep penetration of both chance barricades and other materials with no negative effects upon either expansion and penetration in the target.

Right now, there's a cost differential for roughly comparable performance. If performance is more an issue than budget, copper wins. If budget tips the scales, conventional wins at this point in time.

David Sinko · Dec 18, 2010

All-copper expanding rifle bullets are definitely worth the money, since some rifle bullets can be shot so fast that the velocity can destroy even the better bonded lead core bullets. We generally don't have this problem with defensive handgun bullets. The better bonded core lead bullets will still be cheaper than and just as effective as all copper. I feel that the all copper handgun bullets are generally too light, as I prefer bullets that are heavy for caliber. Barnes does make some nice all copper bullets with very wide hollow cavities, kind of like the old Speer 200 gr. flying ashtray. I think they have lots of potential when shot out of revolvers. I'm still trying to shoot some medium sized game with them but have not yet had any luck.

Dave Sinko

scooter123 · Dec 18, 2010

Not for this Old Fart, if I have to shoot someone I want a big heavy bullet. The recoil impulse isn't as sharp with a heavier slug and I believe they produce less wear and tear on the gun.

sw282 · Dec 18, 2010

si--------

RedCardinal · Jan 8, 2011

xcop said:
....If you go to:hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 357 Magnum 125 gr DPX Ammo.htm there is a picture.

Thanks for the link xcop. I have been researching the all copper bullet for the ideal carry round for my various guns. Everything I read is all positive except the cost. If experience supports the hype on all copper bullets, the cost will become less significant. I will carry the all copper and practice with the rest.

Harrison · Jan 8, 2011

For rifles, they don't shoot accurately in many guns; they are overly long for weight and intrude into the powder space on some guns; they are expensive compared to more regular bullets; for 98% of what you might shoot with a rifle they offer no advantages over regular bullets, and they tend to copper foul bores more than gilding metal bullets.

For pistols, for what they offer they are really expensive. Do they offer significently increased performance, for the price? Its doubtful.

g26az · Mar 7, 2012

I carry the 115 gr DPX in my 9 mm Glocks. Last year I had to shoot a ~100 lb Pitbull that was killing our dog. The round went in at the front shoulder, through the length of the body, and barely broke the skin in front the opposite side rear leg, but did not exit. Perfect performance. I was expecting it to pass thru so I made sure I had a downward angle before I fired.
What I like about the copper bullets is that they expand well from handguns, and retain (usually) 100% of thier weight. Expensive? Yes - but what value do you place on your own hide?
I will continue to use them for carry, and practice with the cheaper stuff. After all, a box of twenty SHOULD last you for 20 self defense shootings, right?

stevej615 · Mar 7, 2012

Critical Defense from Hornady for me. I keep six rounds loaded in my 27-2 for home defense. The main issue that always bothered me about the .357 Magnum was that a bullet would pass through a bad guy and then several neighbor houses as well. The Hornady bullet takes care of that.

Are Copper Bullets the Rave of the Future for Self-Defense?

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