The recent lever gun threads got me to thinking about getting another (have a .30-.30 and a .22) in another caliber. Anybody have (or have thoughts on) the .444 or .450?

Both are real power houses. The 450 Marlin has been dropped from the 2011 Marlin catalog. So out of those 2 I would go with the 444. But if I could choose any Marlin it would be a 45/70. For a reloader it is very versatile.

I'm more of the .45-70 vs .450 Marlin. The .444 being limited to .44 magnum bullets is slightly more limiting to me. Hearing that they dropped the mighty .450 Marlin might force my hand. Now I kind of want one out of spite. I know I could always handload the .45-70 up but I wouldn't mind supporting a good cartridge either. Maybe I waited too long.

45 - 70 for the win.
your bullet selection is HUGE lending well to the arm as viewed from the reloading bench.
444 can go from 180 - about 310 grains and thats it, with 180 being kinda wimpy for the cartridge.
45-70 on the other hand can run from 220 - 550 grain slugs .. if you cant find an answer to a problem in that spread .. you need to find a new problem.

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it just needs more voltage

.450 brass is scarce as hens teeth right about now.

Didn't realize they dropped the .450. Thanks for the heads up.

Re: The 45-70 vs. the 450, I vaguely recall reading somewhere that the 45-70 can't be loaded up to .450 pressures due to difference in thickness of the brass, but I could be wrong (hey, it's happened).

in theory that might be correct though Ive seen some loading data for 45-70 in ruger No.1 that was walking in 458 win mag turf. That said, what limitations it may have against another 450 bore is kinda pointless since you'll only use its full redlined potential to play dirty tricks on your shooting buddies anyhow.

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it just needs more voltage

The argument always thrown at me for the .45-70 over the .450 Marlin is that with new brass the .45-70 can be loaded up just as much. But it has to be new brass not decades old or from granddad's closet stash of brass. I just figured the .450 chambered guns were MADE for .450 so no worries on if you are pushing an envelope or not. That and they just look like belted bazooka cartridges. Likey.

How about the .357 mag.? Anyone have one - how does it perform?

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Don't tread on me

.357 from a levergun? I have a rechambered Winnie 1892 in .357 and while it's fun and handy as heck to carry I think unless you hotrod a little its a bit under gun. IMHO. Others will throw that in my face.

I recall that the article mentioned the Ruger #1 potential, aside from the possible brass issue.

I have also read on the marlin owners forum that the 450 loads and cycles smoother than the 45-70.

You are making me want a Marlin in .450, but my gun budget is bone dry right now.

I saw a Marlin 1894 Cowboy Lever in .357 Mag. at the shop the other day that really got my attention - but don't know how well that round would pan out in a rifle at distance - guess I should do some homework.

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Don't tread on me

Mine too -- which makes me wonder why I started his thread in the first place

Dreams, my friend the yaktamer, dreams. Of what one day could be...

And gun talk is like crack.

figures are out of my reloading manual which also specified Ruger No.1, Siamese mauser actions and guns of similar strength.
The point really is that the OP didnt mention a love affair for the 458 win mag or 460 wetherby so I doubt that he intends to tap the full potential. which is fine. A 458 magnum would be a bit much for any practical applications here in the lower 48.
Since it would seem that 450 Marlin is a one hit wonder caliber, that leaves us looking at the 45-70 instead.
450 marlin or old 45-70, brass availability not withstanding, would both do a fine job of launching baseball sized chucks of lead the American way.

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it just needs more voltage

Does your LGS carry ammo or brass for either of them?

About a week ago I got my whitetail with my 1895GS .45-70. I was shooting a 460 gr. LBT cast bullet that does 1817 FPS over the chrono. The deer was walking at about 30 yards in heavy cover and when I shot I didn't realize that the deer had stepped behind a tree. The bullet smashed through the 4" thick tree just off of center and then went on to hit the deer in the neck, dropping it in its tracks. With that kind of performance, who needs the .450 Marlin... or the .458 Winchester?

Dave Sinko

exactly.
the only thing you do need is its glorious wide range of projectile weights.

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it just needs more voltage

Could a .458 be made in a lever gun, or is the lever just too fragile a design? The concept would be cool if it is feasible.

I never think in terms of "need" for anything in firearms. Ballistics, caliber, barrel length, or action design it all comes down to what you want and not need. I have heard it enough times that anything beyond .30-30 is overkill and then I hear someone else grumble that the .22 mag is still plenty for deer. But this is just me rambling now.

Would pick the 45-70 guide gun (without ports). Have a 444 outfitter, and 45-70 guide gun, both are ported. The 444 is extremly accurate, the 45-70 is very close to it. Seems to be a much better selection of approprite bullets for the 45-70.

However, there is a certain bit of fun launching those 180 gn xtp's from the 444, at obsene velocities for a lever.

I would never dismiss the fun factor from any rifle. The only reason I would pick the .444 last is the bullet selection vs use for the rifle. I bet the .444 is a .429 screamer.

Well, I'm biased, but I like the 444. Bullet selection these days is much better, especially from Hornady.

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As an owner of Marlin lever action rifles chambered in .41 Mag, .444, .45-70, & .450.

For fun shooting you can't beat the .41 Mag Lever action, it will take a whitetail with no problem and when paired up with a Model 657 you can't beat the rifle/pistol combo using the same ammunition.

I bought the .444 Marlin years ago when they first hit market to replace my .35 Remington that my son decided was going to be his whitetail rifle.
The .444 got a lot of hunting before I bought and fell in love with the .45-70 Gov't, it then became a safe queen.

I bought a .450 Marlin when they first came out and it enjoying shooting this as much as the .45-70. Have taken an Elk & Moose with .450 and didn't feel under gunned.

wasnt the 450 designed to be the equivalent of a 45-70 that is hot ? factory (non buffalo bore or garrett) 45-70 is so light with due respect to the 125 year old trapdoor springfields and other old timers out there. dont wnat to be picking metal out of your forehead when one lets los after running a garret hammerhead thru it. the 450 is a modern version that is hot and the strong marlin action can handle it. Guys have been hotrodding the 45-70 forever and shooting it in modern marlins and ruger # 1.. get the 450 if you like it and maybe you can get the price lower by telling the guy its no longer supported by the factory. get a lifetime supply of ammo and brass before you cant.

or get the 45-70 and you wont have a problem.

I've got the .444, and really like it. Mine is very accurate, and a powerful round, but also not rough to shoot. It's hell on just about anything you put it on... For my uses, I have not felt restricted in available bullets. The .45/70 probably is more versatile, but having the .444, I have not felt the need to get one...

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If your'e going to get a big bore levergun, anything but a 45-70 is just going to be for the mavericks that want to be cool. You can load a 45-70 up till it will dislocate your shoulder. Or down too.

Beware of the 45/70. I bid on a Marlin 1895 on Gunbroker thinking I would not get it and low and behold I won the bid and fell in love with the caliber. I now have 4 molds to cast with....from 385 grn up to a 525 grn Lyman..with it, and just ordered a Big Timber Shiloh Sharps.( Thats what I am going to use the 525 grn with) It will be 2 yrs until delivery but by that time I will have the money saved up to pay for it. Not only, as said above about the variety of different loads you can use for it, you can always use black powder if you want to..thats where the 70 comes in..(only black powder though). Any caliber that has been around for over 150yrs and can drop a animal over 2000 lbs with one shot (insert buffalo), helped win a civil war, and opened up the West would make it a no brainer for me. Heck, the history of the caliber is almost as fun as shooting it ! JMHO

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You'll shoot your eye out kid

love the 4570!

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

As a reloader, the 45-70 made more sense for me, so I chose it.

Mild to wild and everything able to take any game. Availability is crucial IMO, so check around and see for yourself what's possible to buy and what's not.

Top loads in 45-70 equal the .450 and to get softer .450 loads, you have to make your own.

While I agree with your sentiments about the .45-70, it hasn't been around for quite 150 years yet, and if it helped win a civil war, it wasn't our civil war. It missed it by seven or eight years.

I just picked up a .450 and reloading dies. I'm set for bear stomping now.

All great guns as stated, but when comparing the 'big 4' lever guns, the 45-70 is avalible in "cowboy" model. The difference is it comes with a cut rifled barrel for optimum lead bullet performance. My choice hands down, whether you are talking roll your own or tailor maid ammo, It will do anything any other in it's class PLUS.

Now a "YAH BUT", this thread totally ignored the 35 Rem. Altho not in the class with the 'big 4's' still it's no sloutch.

The 35 Rem is closer to the class of the ol' dirty 30, it has taken mucho game & survived decades without overkill, bloodshot meat, or lost animals due to shock-numbing. With the slower heavier bullet, where you shoot 'em is where you'll find 'em.

Jim

A vote for the 45-70 here. I have a Marlin guide gun in that caliber and added receiver peep sight and a much needed recoil pad. You can launch the Remington 405 flat points and a teeth rattling speed. The brass and bullets are available about everywhere.