Help with ammo selection for recoil sensitive wife

[Austerity]

My wife finally told me she wanted to carry and get her permit last week. Saturday I picked up a new 642 for her, and Sunday I picked up an M&P 360 for myself. The idea was so have two similar guns that we could shoot together, taking nothing else to the range but these two. She is not strong enough to consistently rack the slide on a semi auto, and I do not think she needs any more than a 5 shot DAO J-Frame.

Today we shot some standard pressure FMJ 38 special, Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 130GR +P, and Hornady Critical Defense 110GR +1. She had a lot of trouble with the standard pressure, and could barely finish 5 rounds of the other two, especially the Critical Defense. I picked this over an LCR because it was a bit heavier, but I believe it is still pretty punishing for her.

She shot well and feels more confident, but stated she would prefer to carry the standard pressure rounds for now.

So, with that said, what is the best standard pressure self defense round for a 642? I don't have a lot of experience, but I was leaning towards the Buffalo Bore "Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Ammo - 158 gr. Soft Lead SWC-HC (850fps/M.E. 253 ft. lbs.)"

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Hvy .38 Spl (Non + P) Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Any other options or opinions would be greatly appreciated. We are not looking for +P power, but a standard pressure, low recoil round that is effective enough for me to feel confident in her carrying it until she becomes more proficient.

Thanks

EDIT: I was also considering the Federal Hydra-Shok Low Recoil 110Gr round.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/211...oint-box-of-20

[handgunner356]

I would suggest that you get some 148gr wadcutters to build her up some. That would be the lightest shooting ammo available for .38 and would give you a good indication rather or not the gun is going to work out for her. I don't find the Airweights all that pleasant to shoot myself, but the idea is make them light enough you'll carry it instead of leaving it behind because it's too heavy. The longer magnum grips will help, but again they add bulk.

[Austerity]

Originally Posted by handgunner356

I would suggest that you get some 148gr wadcutters to build her up some. That would be the lightest shooting ammo available for .38 and would give you a good indication rather or not the gun is going to work out for her. I don't find the Airweights all that pleasant to shoot myself, but the idea is make them light enough you'll carry it instead of leaving it behind because it's too heavy. The longer magnum grips will help, but again they add bulk.

I went into this knowing that it may not work for her. In fact, I nearly went with a 2 1/4 SP101 for the extra weight, but the weight was a factor for her and I figured we would do our best to train and work up to her proficiently shooting the Airweight, since there is a far greater chance that she will actually carry it.

[max]

I would recommend factory wadcutters.

[pete950]

Target WC's work great even for defense.
If you reload 2.9 0r 3.0 of BE and HBWC would not be a bad load for here.
Make it so she likes shooting make it fun for her.

Good luck

[StatesRightist]

There are not many rounds that expand out of a snub nose revolver, only 4 are considered good self defense rounds from everything I've read and researched. The DPX's and Gold Dot SB are +p. That leaves the 125 grain Nyclads and the 158 grain load you mention, it does not expand much though. I'd go w/ the Nyclads if I were you. LG Outdoors has them. Just my opinion.

[ContinentalOp]

My favorite low recoil load for a 642 is Federal 125gr Nyclad for carry/self-defense and 130gr FMJ from any of the major manufacturers for practice (right now I use PMC 132gr FMJ). The Nyclad load has a good track record in actual shootings. They shoot similarly, which is why I like them for a carry/practice combo.

By the way, just because it's standard pressure doesn't automatically mean low recoil. I've shot Nyclads back to back with BB standard pressure FBI loads in the same cylinder and the BB ammo has significantly more recoil than Nyclads. The BB ammo even had noticeably more kick than the Speer 135gr Short-Barrel Gold Dot +P I currently carry.

[badge 851]

I had similar issues with my wife. She wanted a light gun and chose a Mdl 37 Airweight®. It was fine, until she shot it. Using standard pressure 158gr ammunition it was too much recoil for her. To make a long story short, she carries a steel J frame and shoots Federal standard pressure 125gr Nyclad™ HP's; - Problem Solved. If you can get a Mdl 36 or the Ruger® SP101 and Nyclad™'s she will love shooting it.

[gmiller0737]

Might want to try Winchester's Standard Pressure 110gr Silvertips

[captainjohnsofd]

Did you try some type of aftermarket grip for her? A smaller profile rubber grip like the new S&W J frame grip or Uncle Mike's Boot grip are still small for her hands but would absorb some of the recoil. My wife had the same trouble with her Model 37 until I changed the grips.

[Pisgah]

The standard-velocity Nyclads are mild enough for 'most anyone, and target wadcutters even more-so. Either is fine for short-range self defense.

[Austerity]

Thanks for all the input. I took the stock S&W grips off and installed a spare set of Hogue Bantam grips I had, but they still leave the backstrap exposed and do not feel much different, although they may absorb recoil more. If anyone has a specific grip recommendation that will still conceal well, i'm all ears.

With that said, I think I'm going to order 2 boxes of Nyclads and see how she handles them.

[Joni_Lynn]

I recommend finding a grip or stock for the gun that fits her hand. Having a grip that fit you correctly helps a lot with recoil control.
Something I do when showing some people to shoot is to tell them and then show them that while there is recoil the guns kick isn't going to do harm to them. I had a friends daughter shooting my 1911 that way.
I'll also recommend the 148 wadcutter ammo.

This is my 60-7 with Herrett's Detective stock. Being wood it won't hang up on clothing like rubber might. They're a bit large since I have large hands.

[1 old 0311]

Originally Posted by handgunner356

I would suggest that you get some 148gr wadcutters to build her up some. That would be the lightest shooting ammo available for .38 and would give you a good indication rather or not the gun is going to work out for her. I don't find the Airweights all that pleasant to shoot myself, but the idea is make them light enough you'll carry it instead of leaving it behind because it's too heavy. The longer magnum grips will help, but again they add bulk.

+1 on the Wadcutters. Very little recoil, and a nice clean hole.

[CTI1USNRET]

Whenever I encounter someone who can't handle recoil I ALWAYS SEE POSTURE PROBLEMS.
Watch for these DON'Ts
* leaning back from the gun with stomach forward,
* holding the handgun close to the face with elbows down,
* crooked wrists and elbows that do not transmit the recoil straight to the shoulder.

A good posture transmits the recoil along the arm to the shoulder to the entire body.

Even a 500 S&W is tamed with proper posture.

[BurgerBoy]

I put a Houge full size grip on my 642 and it shoots just fine now and you hardly feel the recoil. Hogue Rubber Monogrip For J Frame, Like Or Dislike?

[Austerity]

Even more great advice. Great forum, thanks.

[Stu Honea]

I would also suggest wadcutters,the sharper the shoulder,the better.
Does your wife have a disability? I ask only because my wife does,has occured in the last two years and her hand strength has diminished to the extent that she no longer felt confident racking the slide of her G26. She is now using a customed up Mod.10-5 and is really good with it ,but she is a shooter.
The light weight of the airweight gun only leaves a few options for her that would not be intimidating or punishing from recoil. The wadcutters are one option,and the very expensive DPX is another. Some might suggest the Hornady
Critical Defense,which may prove to be another option,but I have no personal experience with it,nor am I familier with any real world shooting results with it
I would have suggested the SP101,but if that amount of weight was a problem,you may have made the best choice.
Best of luck with your choices.

ETA: I just noticed that the Nyclad was mentioned a couple of times.I would agree that it would be worth trying also. It was a pretty good snubby load in past years and I assume that since it came back into production,it is the same load and would work pretty well.

[kraigwy]

I use Winchester Super Match in my 642. Its a 158 grn LSWC, mild to shoot and accurate.

It's accuatual velocity (at 10 ft) is just north of 750 fps out of my 642. It gives you the needed penitration, but again is mild to shoot.

It works too. Haven't shot any two legged critters but I did have to put down a horse and it did that.

Being a cheap sucker I shoot mostly reloads, I found the Winchester 158s shoot exactly like my 150 grn LSWC (Lyman mold 358477) and 4.5 grns of Unique.

I've tried +Ps, and they I just don't shoot them as well. With the standard velocity, I shoot more, and hit more. I like shooting the same style load I carry.

Even my wife who can't handle any recoil (she had three rods in her back between her shoulder blades from breaking it) shoots the Winchester bullet out of my 642 without any difficulty.

Remington makes the same style bullet and load but I got too many fail to fires out of the Remington stuff, some requiring two or three hammer strikes with my 642 to get them to go off. The Winchesters fire every time.

[Stu Honea]

Good info,kraigwy. That Super Match load is the X38SMRP.

Dr.Gary Roberts testing showed that the wadcutter round gives exactly the same performance through bare gel and four layer denim.
Per Doc Roberts there are a couple of California departments whose officers have used the round with good sucess from their snubs.

[JohnnieB]

It took a couple years, but my wife went from an all steel revolver and LWCs for CC to an airweight with Pachmayr Decelerator grips stoked and LSWCHP +P.
She has purses with central compartments designed for CC, so the added bulk of the larger/softer grips isn't an issue.

She practices with LWC except for the last 5 or 10, those being the full power loads she carries.

Of course, I cannot take any credit for this evolution, she took lessons from the female co-owner (wife) of my LGS owner.

SWMBO has also been known to raid my stash of relatively mild LSWC that I reload for practice and plinking.

[Pointblank2U]

Federal Nyclad

[Austerity]

Originally Posted by Stu Honea

I would also suggest wadcutters,the sharper the shoulder,the better.
Does your wife have a disability? I ask only because my wife does,has occured in the last two years and her hand strength has diminished to the extent that she no longer felt confident racking the slide of her G26. She is now using a customed up Mod.10-5 and is really good with it ,but she is a shooter.
The light weight of the airweight gun only leaves a few options for her that would not be intimidating or punishing from recoil. The wadcutters are one option,and the very expensive DPX is another. Some might suggest the Hornady
Critical Defense,which may prove to be another option,but I have no personal experience with it,nor am I familier with any real world shooting results with it
I would have suggested the SP101,but if that amount of weight was a problem,you may have made the best choice.
Best of luck with your choices.

ETA: I just noticed that the Nyclad was mentioned a couple of times.I would agree that it would be worth trying also. It was a pretty good snubby load in past years and I assume that since it came back into production,it is the same load and would work pretty well.

No, not really. Several months ago she had shoulder surgery for a rotator cuff on her dominant arm, but I have had it on both and it has affected me little.

I think it is more mental than physical. She isn't small or dainty, and she worked out before the surgery and now that she is out of rehab has been doing Jillian Michaels workouts which are pretty hardcore and a lot of yoga. She shoots 38 Special +P out of my 66 with ease and it plenty strong to handle it and the airweight. She just needs more practice, but I don't want her to shy away from the gun because of the recoil, I would like her to work her way into it. It's small and lightweight which means she will actually carry it.

She doesn't have a problem racking the slide on any full size gun (except blow-back designs), but any type of slim "concealed carry" semi auto is very hard for her. I have taught her the "slingshot" method of pushing forward with the dominate hand and pulling back and releasing briskly with non-dominant hand. She can do it, but not proficiently and she doesn't enjoy it. She feels more comfortable with a revolver which is fine with me.

[Joni_Lynn]

I'd also suggest that if she wants to shoot a lot, get a steel gun to use most of the time and only shoot the other enough to be familiar with it. By steel, I mean the same exact size and style of gun except for heavier. My 342Ti (or 340PD) is a nice gun but it doesn't take much to be enough. That's when the 60-7 while not quite the same style will fill in nicely.

[Austerity]

Originally Posted by Joni_Lynn

I'd also suggest that if she wants to shoot a lot, get a steel gun to use most of the time and only shoot the other enough to be familiar with it. By steel, I mean the same exact size and style of gun except for heavier. My 342Ti (or 340PD) is a nice gun but it doesn't take much to be enough. That's when the 60-7 while not quite the same style will fill in nicely.

I actually have plans to do that. She loves to shoot my 66, but would never carry it. Once she gets some practice down with the Airweight, I plan to get her a 60 or older 36 all steel to allow her to shoot several hundreds rounds in a range session comfortably.

[Joni_Lynn]

The 60-7 I posted a pic of is quite pleasant now that it has grips that fit my hand size. With 148 wadcutters it's a nice range gun.

[Austerity]

Originally Posted by Joni_Lynn

The 60-7 I posted a pic of is quite pleasant now that it has grips that fit my hand size. With 148 wadcutters it's a nice range gun.

Top notch to have hands on help from a female, thanks!

[Joni_Lynn]

My pleasure, I like to see more women getting into the sport. Helping to see that they have a better chance of success is my goal.
When she gets tired of killing paper targets, look into some reactive targets. They're more fun and give instant feedback.

[phubai8]

This is a very good thread. I will get my wife to read it. Thanks all for the input.

[MichiganScott]

I've never been able to understand so many threads that begin with "I've picked up a model "X" for my wife".

I've always allowed my wife to pick out her own pistols and we are both much happier. She currently owns a Model 28 4" just for grins, 3913 for carry, an M&P9C with light for a bedroom gun, several long guns, and several .22's.

When she picked out the 3913, the salesman (term used lightly) said, "You know that's a 9mm". Her response was, "I shoot his .45 better than he does, so what's your point?" This from a woman that stands an inch under 5 ft.

My whole point is light and small may not be the best choice for a non-enthusiast. I hope the OP's wife can find ammo and stocks so she can enjoy shooting her 642. You have to shoot your carry gun a lot if you want to bet your life on it, particularly if it is light and hard to control.

[pff]

Originally Posted by Austerity

I actually have plans to do that. She loves to shoot my 66, but would never carry it. Once she gets some practice down with the Airweight, I plan to get her a 60 or older 36 all steel to allow her to shoot several hundreds rounds in a range session comfortably.

"shoot several hundreds rounds in a range session comfortably." ???????

That might be part of the problem. We're not talking a hardcore gameshooter here.

20-30 rounds from an AirWeight is plenty for most folks.

I limit myself to 15 in the AirLite in any one session. More starts getting painful and is counterproductive.

As a side note, I appreciate you hardcore gun-guys picking out 2 pound plus K frames for your wife to carry; makes for some killer deals at shows.

Regards,

Pat

[bigborephil]

I like the wadcutter loads from DoubleTap.

DoubleTap Ammunition

[photoman]

The 642 is an excellent personal defense handgun given certain conditions!


1. Large rubber grips are a must for beginners.


2. Standard pressure ammo only until the shooter is used to the recoil of the lightweight 642. That includes carry ammo too! ABSOLUTELY NO BUFFALO BORE STANDARD PRESSURE AMMO! It may be standard pressure but it is +P recoil! Standard pressure, 110gr ammo like the Federal load you mentioned has very little recoil and is a better option even though it doesn't perform as well in testing when compared to heavier/faster ammo.


3. 1000 dry fires as soon as possible. This will smooth up the action quite a bit and make trigger control much easier.


4. The Apex spring kit is a good option if you are handy enough to install it or can afford to have a gunsmith install it. This will do wonders for trigger control (especially when combined with the 1000 dry fires). I use the main and rebound springs from the kit and leave the stock firing pin and firing pin spring in the gun.


5. Practice firing at distances less than seven yards. Anything beyond that will likely frustrate the beginning Airweight shooter.


6. Use silhouette targets at the range. Airweights are fighting guns, not target guns! Trying to shoot small bullseye groups with an Airweight is not the mission of this handgun (although you might find it most rewarding later on).


7. A good pocket holster is a must for your new 642. It's like peanut butter and jelly! They just go together so well.

[ogilvyspecial]

I really can't add to the excellent advice that you've already received but wanted to say something else about grips.

Less than a week ago my son & I put around 400 rd's through three J Frame Airweights, a M638 & two 642's. Two of these guns had small wood grips on them with exposed backstraps & the third had the type shown below, which you can get through the S&W Store if so inclined. They really do make a difference when it comes to felt recoil.



One other thing I've found is that when shooting rounds with a heavy recoil the first cylinder or two are the worst. For some reason I seem to get used to them and even end up shooting one-handed with rounds that "hurt" using two hands when I started out that day. As always, your mileage, or your wife's, may vary.

Happy Shooting!!

[Krusr]

Originally Posted by gmiller0737

Might want to try Winchester's Standard Pressure 110gr Silvertips

Another vote for the Silvertips,

Krusr

[Rule 303]

I'd try to find a three inch, steel J Frame. Start her out with 148 grn WCs as others have said. As she feels more comfortable with the recoil, get her some Speer 135grn Gold Dots, not the +Ps, just standard ammo.

See how she does with this.

My wife carries a 3 inch Model 60 with the standard pressure Gold Dots and does just fine with it.

Rule 303

[blujax01]

I took the route of buying my wife what I thought she should have. 3" J-Frame. She hated it. She then proceeded to rent all sorts of guns she was interested in. Turns our she much prefers a bottom-feeder. She bought an M&P 9C and after trying several weights, goes with the 147 grain heavier ammunition. I cooked up some Winchester STHP as well as Remington Golden Sabre's for SD and she loves them.
She carries in her purse, a unit from Coronado Leather, and never leaves home without it.

Bottom line is that once I treated her as an equal rather than telling her what she needed, I had a buddy at the range and in the LGS.

[browntown]

Originally Posted by CTI1USNRET

Whenever I encounter someone who can't handle recoil I ALWAYS SEE POSTURE PROBLEMS.
Watch for these DON'Ts
* leaning back from the gun with stomach forward,
* holding the handgun close to the face with elbows down,
* crooked wrists and elbows that do not transmit the recoil straight to the shoulder.

A good posture transmits the recoil along the arm to the shoulder to the entire body.

Even a 500 S&W is tamed with proper posture.

Don't want to take everyone too far off topic, but I don't shoot with straight arms, and even at 250lbs I'm somewhat of a recoil weenie from far too many rounds of trap. I believe the easiest way to shoot a revolver is with both elbows bent and to the side, and they act as shock absorbers -- transmitting LESS to the shoulder. Miculek advocates this as well. See this video
Jerry Miculek - Stance | MyOutdoorTV.com

Now my dad taught me the isosceles rigid arm business, and my retired leo friends use the weaver elbow under the gun business, but Miculek's stance has served me well target shooting at least.

[jimmyj]

Originally Posted by handgunner356

I would suggest that you get some 148gr wadcutters to build her up some. That would be the lightest shooting ammo available for .38 and would give you a good indication rather or not the gun is going to work out for her. I don't find the Airweights all that pleasant to shoot myself, but the idea is make them light enough you'll carry it instead of leaving it behind because it's too heavy. The longer magnum grips will help, but again they add bulk.

Factory 148gr Wadcutters are an acceptable SD.
You might consider an all steel model "J" Frame. Ladys that shoot a Model 36 w/ three inch barrel are very happy with this model.

[photoman]

Originally Posted by blujax01

I took the route of buying my wife what I thought she should have. 3" J-Frame. She hated it. She then proceeded to rent all sorts of guns she was interested in. Turns our she much prefers a bottom-feeder. She bought an M&P 9C and after trying several weights, goes with the 147 grain heavier ammunition. I cooked up some Winchester STHP as well as Remington Golden Sabre's for SD and she loves them.
She carries in her purse, a unit from Coronado Leather, and never leaves home without it.

Bottom line is that once I treated her as an equal rather than telling her what she needed, I had a buddy at the range and in the LGS.

Is she well trained and practiced with malfunction drills?

[photoman]

Originally Posted by browntown

Don't want to take everyone too far off topic, but I don't shoot with straight arms, and even at 250lbs I'm somewhat of a recoil weenie from far too many rounds of trap. I believe the easiest way to shoot a revolver is with both elbows bent and to the side, and they act as shock absorbers -- transmitting LESS to the shoulder. Miculek advocates this as well. See this video
Jerry Miculek - Stance | MyOutdoorTV.com

The only problem with that plan is that, nine times out of ten, a person under stress will crouch, fully extend their arms and focus on the target. Most of us mere mortals are not as cool under fire as Cooper was.

[Az Rick]

I agree w/some other posters,...Grips.
Shoot light stuff and build up slowly, lots of rounds, hundreds.
She'll lose her sensitivity and be out shooting us all.
Little guns are harder to master. get her a 4in. K frame too, get her shooting that one and then transition to the j frame

Shoot, shoot and shoot some more.


Best, Rick

[paragon1]

LG-305/405 Crimson Trace grips are the best at absorbing recoil on the airweights. They are pricey, but completely change the feel of an airweight.

Hogue is a couple of months away from introducing a grip for the centennials that will have the same, or better recoil absorption than the 305's, without having to buy a lasergrip.

[blujax01]

Originally Posted by Photoman44

Is she well trained and practiced with malfunction drills?

Which has exactly what to do with recoil?

To answer your question, she puts about 400 rounds a month downrange and is as familiar with clearing a jam as the next guy, yes.

If you refer to the "auto's vs revolvers for CC" argument, that is a different thread.

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted by Photoman44

The 642 is an excellent personal defense handgun given certain conditions!


1. Large rubber grips are a must for beginners.


2. Standard pressure ammo only until the shooter is used to the recoil of the lightweight 642. That includes carry ammo too! ABSOLUTELY NO BUFFALO BORE STANDARD PRESSURE AMMO! It may be standard pressure but it is +P recoil! Standard pressure, 110gr ammo like the Federal load you mentioned has very little recoil and is a better option even though it doesn't perform as well in testing when compared to heavier/faster ammo.


3. 1000 dry fires as soon as possible. This will smooth up the action quite a bit and make trigger control much easier.


4. The Apex spring kit is a good option if you are handy enough to install it or can afford to have a gunsmith install it. This will do wonders for trigger control (especially when combined with the 1000 dry fires). I use the main and rebound springs from the kit and leave the stock firing pin and firing pin spring in the gun.


5. Practice firing at distances less than seven yards. Anything beyond that will likely frustrate the beginning Airweight shooter.


6. Use silhouette targets at the range. Airweights are fighting guns, not target guns! Trying to shoot small bullseye groups with an Airweight is not the mission of this handgun (although you might find it most rewarding later on).


7. A good pocket holster is a must for your new 642. It's like peanut butter and jelly! They just go together so well.

That there is some very good advice. I was going to say the same about Buffalo Bore ammo but it has already been explained well.

One of my sons does not like recoil but he wants to carry an Airweight which means he needs to practice with an Airweight. I bought him a set of Pachmayr Gripper Grips which are large and cover the backstrap for use at the range. He carries them in his range bag to make practice more comfortable.

Another good suggestion from Joni is a heavier revolver for practice, I do that. I now carry a M442 and also have a M640 I sometimes carry that I can also use for practice. I really like to shoot but like said, 100+ rounds through an Airweight is not a pleasant undertaking. I can easily shoot 100 or more rounds through the 23oz all Steel M640 and to finish up I shoot 15 to 20 rounds of my carry ammo through my 15oz M442 carry revolver. That works very well for me and it might work for your wife too.

I know, I know, I'm not telling you to buy an additional $700 revolver just for practice. But, you can probably find a well used M60 in .38 Special for a good price. Most buyers don't want the .38 Special M60, they want the .357 Magnum M60 so the price is usually much lower on the .38 Special model.

Just a few more ideas to consider.

[Stu1205]

I just came here to post the same question.
My wife wanted me to leave her one of my guns when I travel.
So, off to the range we went for several shooting lessons.
I brought some J Frame and K Frame revolvers for her to try.
She settled on the 442 as the K Frames were too heavy for her to hold, and she liked the 442 better than the 640 or 60 because it too was lighter.
I read all your recommendations about ammo.
I have 110gr Silvertips in it now, but would the 125gr nyclad or the 148gr wadcutters have less recoil?

Stu

[Packard]

From my experience not only is the pressure important to recoil, but also the bullet weight.

A light bullet will have less perceived recoil than a heavy one.

So a standard loading with a light bullet would be my recommendation.

Glaser Safety Slugs are available in 80 gr., standard .38. I think I would give that a try.

Chuck Hawkes gives it a thumbs up.

[steamloco76]

The new Hornady 110 grain FXT Critical Defense standard pressure load is a pleasure to shoot from lightweight snubbies.

It also prints very close to point of aim from my 642 and my wife's Taurus Ultra Lite. Low muzzle flash is another plus.

We both shoot 148 grain wadcutters for most practice with the little revolvers then a few rounds of full power ammo.

[photoman]

Originally Posted by blujax01

Which has exactly what to do with recoil?

To answer your question, she puts about 400 rounds a month downrange and is as familiar with clearing a jam as the next guy, yes.

If you refer to the "auto's vs revolvers for CC" argument, that is a different thread.

Good to hear that. Being able to quickly clear a jammed semi-auto is very important, often overlooked and hardly ever practiced.

I bring up the point because many women will select a semi-auto for reduced felt recoil but not properly train with the gun selected.

[Austerity]

Thanks for all the input. We went with Nyclads (from LG Outdoors, thanks for the recommendation). She shoots them fine and they perform nearly identically to the "canned heat" we have 2000rnds of from Georgia Arms.

I didn't pick the gun for her. We tried tons, she has shot tons of mine, and handles the 66 the best. We decided she just couldn't do a semi auto. Slide racking, sling shotting, magazine release, loading magazines, malfunction drills, etc...was just too much for her.

She preferred a revolver. She said she wouldn't carry it if it was light. I said if your going to get one, it needs a consistent and safe DAO with no hammer to snag for those of us with less training. She handled one as well as an LCR and she actually preferred the LCR, but I liked the Smith better and it was a few ounces heavier and had more of a proven track record than the LCR so we went with that. I didn't "pick" anything for her.

We also got the rubber grips that cover the backstrap from S&W. Huge improvement.