Brian Pearce tells, in the new Handloader, how to duplicate the 158gr SWCHP +P BB load. Rim Rock bullet and 6.3gr Power Pistol. He says it is within SAAMI guidelines............

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

That is worth pursuing, I guess I need to order some Rimrock® Cast Boolits!

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David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

Does the Buffalo Bore ammo produce any noticeable muzzle flash?

Power Pistol is notorious for lighting up the night.

This is one thread that I will follow with great interest. Why? Simply because I am curious. I would very much like to know how BB obtains such outstanding results without exceeding SAAMI standards. And given the cost of BB ammunition, I would like to know how I might go about making handloads for my revolvers that would produce such effective ballistics.

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<><

Heck, get out the old Speer # 8 and the 4756, and you can easily exceed that load.

Not within SAAMI specs, though.

6 grains Power Pistol purportedly gives 1,037 FPS for a 158 grain LSWC per Alliance's site: Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

Has anybody here confirmed this is for real, via chrono readings?

Read the new Handloader. Brian Pearce did a LCR article. In it he chronoed the BB load at 999fps. He gave some handload data. This included the Rim Rock bullet over 6.3gr Power Pistol. It chronoed 1004fps. He said all loads were SAAMI compliant for +P. I personally trust Pearce. As always JMHO-YMMV...........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

I've posted data here for shooting 158-gr hardcasts over 6.0 grains of PP, from snubs and other guns. Not sure if a search will turn it up, but it was within the past 5 years. I don't have my notebooks here at my SF office, but from a snub, you're looking at about 875 fps with that loading. John M., that Alliant listing has to be from a 6" tube.

Hmm..875 FPS for a 158 grain LSWC from a snub .38 is not to shabby at all, I may have to try some of this PP stuff

I have done (and posted here a while ago) the actual chronographed testing results of the Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P LSWCHP-GC ammunition. Out of my personal model 2" 60-7 Chief's Special the velocity averaged 1037 fps. Out of my 3" M65 1086 fps. and out of my friends 2" Dick Spl. 1043 fps. Not only incredible, but it was incredibly consistent with a variation of only a few fps between shots from the same gun.

The results posted by the OP did not specify barrel length nor did it state that he actually personally chronographed them. I will say that I am a huge BB fan and I have no personal interest in the Company other than the fact that I am a customer and like what they do, but I will go so far as to make this statement:

Buffalo Bore's ammo is just about the ONLY ammo I ave ever tested that ACTUALLY does EXACTLY - OR MORE than their advertised claims and ballistic charts state. Again, the results I chronographed above are from actual guns, not test barrels or 6" barrels. I can not say the same about the ammunition produced by Rem, Win and Fed because they are not even close!

If Tim Sundles (Pres. of BB ammo) can do it I am sure it can be duplicated by someone else as well, but they would have to stumble onto what the BB "formula" is. All Tim will state is that he has a special powder blend, but he obviously is not telling anyone else! We all know what the chemical make up of Coca-Cola is (like it or not) and it is plainly stated on their label, but NO ONE in a hundred years has quite duplicated it's exact taste.

I would certainly like to test those loads personally in my own guns through my Chrony. I am not currently a user of Power Pistol Powder, but if I cross paths with some I intend to give it a whirl.

Thanks for posting.

Chief38

I whole heartedly concur with your experience and observations. I truely believe, as far as ammunition for the 38 Special goes; Buffalo Bore® is the best there is. It is the only ammo I carry in my 38 Special guns.

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David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

No, I didn't chronograph these loads, Brian Pearce did. They were fired from a standard LCR revolver, with nearly the same results. I am not advocating the use of this, or any other handload for SD. Several people have posed the question of duplicating this load for practice. If a cannister grade of PP was flash suppressed and used to duplicate this load, it would match the BB offering. 9gr of PP and a 250gr Kieth pretty much matches the BB .44spl 1,000fps load, too. I just noticed this in passing, and was trying to share with others on the forum. I use some BB ammo, and have a lot of respect for Tim Sundles. This was not an attack on BB or Mr Sundles................

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

I don't know that I'd want to fire something that hot through an LCR.
Not if I expected to get back to point of aim anytime soon.
The LCR is a brutal ordeal with range ammo.

Here are my chrono results with a 158 gr. SWC plain base bullet and 6.6 grs. of Power Pistol:

917 FPS
935 FPS
921 FPS
931 FPS
935 FPS

These were shot out of a Model 64-2 with a 2" barrel. This Model 64 is the "lowest common denominator" of my .38 Special revolvers and runs up the pressure the most quickly. My notes indicate that this load extracts easily, but 7.0 grs. is too sticky.

While this load is no joke, it is my opinion that it is not the equal of the Buffalo Bore load. I have never used the Rim Rock bullet, but I do not see how 0.3 grs. less powder will give the 100 or so FPS more needed to duplicate what numerous shooters claim the Buffalo Bore load will do out of a 2" barrel.

Dave Sinko

Why use Power Pistol when HS-6 will deliver better results.

As for the lack of extreme muzzle flash from Buffalo Bore ammo, I'm willing to bet if they are using Power Pistol they are also adding a flash suppressor to it.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

W231 is a good powder for those looking for a bit more velocity with
cast bullets in the 38 spl. 5.1 grs of 231 under a 158 gr cast TV SWC = 1003 fps in my 4" S&W 10-5 and 910 fps in my 2" 10-5. Lyman data
says +P begins at 5.2 grs of 231 with a plain base 158 gr cast bullet.

Tagged for usage

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Rob

Because it doesn't, Tony!

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Now go make God proud...

I lean toward heavier bullets for SD but the 158 grains are on the ragged edge of performance with the velocities given in a short barreled .38. I drop one weight of bullet back to 140 grains (or whatever is the weight under 158 gr in the type of bullet you choose). The Hodgon site lists several powders that give velocities well over 900 fps.

[QUOTE=papajohn428;136282440]Does the Buffalo Bore ammo produce any noticeable muzzle flash?

Power Pistol is notorious for lighting up the night.

[/QUOTE

My experience with BB ammo is limited to their .38spl lineup, but it has very little flash in a 642/442. I've shot other primo ammo that had more.

You'll never get me to admit that...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

The timing of this thread makes me want to ask a question while a few BB guys are here. Please forgive my brief intrusion. Many folk state the revolver they are selling has only had lead down the tube. Sounds like bragging rights well-deserved.

I love to shoot the different Model and Pre Model 14, most of which sport six inch barrels. The muzzle velocity and energy of the Buffalo Bore rounds are extremely interesting, as is the rest of the manufacturer's details on any of their rounds (like low flash on some loads).....no matter what the barrel length is.

How are these loads on the bores? What do you guys use to clean them properly; just the same one would run down the tube of a hunting rifle? Is it best to buy from a local dealer or straight from the manufacturer?