I have been carrying my Model 19 with Silvertips when hiking, camping, and fishing but will be traveling to North LA and Arkansas and am worried about black bears. Any good loads that might be useful for bear defense?
By the way I know ideally a .44 Magnum is the best for this, but that is not a viable option at this time...

No personal experience, but seems like a lot of qualified people recommend bear spray first, guns as a last resort. Hope your travels are safe, and no bears or you are harmed in the process.

If I was packing my 681 in the boonies, I might have some BB 180gr LSWC in it: Heavy 357 Magnum Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

ETA this is a good read concerning bullet choice for bruin defense: http://garrettcartridges.com/defensive.html

Ok, now I'll get some popcorn, nothing like a good bear thread

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Thanks for the tip. I only hope to use the gun as last resort. I have a box of 158 grain semi wadcutters from Rem. that seem like they might work.

(No offense meant to the OP)

Oh Goodie, another Bear thread. We haven't had one this month yet!

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I agree with the BB 180 grains. I carry them with my 686+ in a moon clip when I'm out in the wilderness. They're fun to shoot too, big booms.

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Lol yep!

I just punch them in the face!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

The best defense for bears is standard bear avoidance techniques. Make a lot of noise so the bears can hear you coming and they can leave the area. Bears attack because they are startled or feel threatened.

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Guy-Harold Smith II

I didn't think that bears carried 357's anymore.............

Randy

...there's a thread somewhere about a ranger that saved himself from a Grizzly with his 357. If you stick it in his ear and keep pullin' the trigger...the old 357 has enough penetration to do the job. Hell...stuck in his ear...the muzzle blast is probably what killed him...

I prefer to stick some bacon in the pack of the slowest member of the group, it saves me from having to carry at all. Maybe rub a little lard on their pants legs?

All kidding aside, Federal makes a 180 gr Cast Core Vital Shok round that's 1130fps and 510mve, should do the trick.

I'd probably opt for a Hardcast 180 grain bullet at a good speed.

Bears won't be a likely problem though.

Have any experience with bears? How big do they get there? As I remember them they weigh about what a man does and a 357 can handle that if the shooter can keep his "scat" together and shoot accurately. Bear spray is so the bear can add some flavor to your raw flesh and I think it teaches them people ARE Great. kyle

I do a lot of hiking and backpacking in Northern MN and WI. There is a large black bear population up there and I have had several encounters. In all honesty, black bears are nothing but large annoying raccoons. I suggest searching the net for articles on hiking and camping in bear country. There are a ton of tips and tricks to avoid or midegate encounters. Making noise and waving your arms being at the top of the list. Bear spray and bear bells are a great idea. Stay away from cubs...one picture of a cute little bear isn't worth dealing with a protective mama. Search specifically for black bear country as tactics for different species vary. You are more likely having to use your .357 in a SD situation against a person then a black bear in the back woods (I saw Deliverance).

There is an old saying...black bear scat is full of twigs, leaves and berries. Grizzly bear scat is full of bear spray, bells and GoreTex.

I’ve lived in Alaska for more than forty years and have had my share of bear encounters, black and grizzly. I won’t bore you with a lot of stories, but I’ll tell you two of them.
A friend and I were hunting for moose and came upon a fairly young, maybe 3-year-old, black bear sitting in a large patch of blueberries feeding himself. Younger bears are moderately edible so my friend shot him. The bear jumped up, landed on his feet, and ran about 70 yards before he dropped to the ground. When we opened him up to dress him out, we could see that his heart was completely destroyed by the bullet. With NO heart, this guy, from a sitting position, ran 200 feet before he died. That’s a black bear.
A few years later, while scoping a hillside, I watched a grizzly bear clawing away at the ground. Through my spotting scope, I saw him drag a black bear out of his den, kill him, and eat him. That’s the difference between a black bear and a grizzly bear. Whatever type of round you carry into the woods is open to debate. But it might be a good idea to save the last round for yourself. Being eaten alive by a grizzly bear strikes me as a very unpleasant way to die.

Probably 30 or so years ago, in a less PC time, Mas Ayoob, answered this question something like this. "I would rather stand on the steps of the Black Panther Headquarters yelling ,hey boy, give me a shoe shine, than take on any bear with any handgun".
I've only killed one bear and it was a large blackbear with a hand gun. I have no desire to do that again.
My minimum caliber in bear country would be a good 12 gauge or heavy caliber rifle.
Just my opinion, but plan for the best and "pack" for the worse.
BTW: Ayoobs comment was his,not mine. Nick

I was always told that if a bear is running toward you, you should stop and urinate a circle around you. The bear will stop to try to figure out what the heck you are doing......

Dont try to put a full nelson on him either. They tell me a bear can turn his head 360 degrees around!

2hawk has given the best load advice regarding a 357 Magnum for Bear Defense IMHO. The Buffalo Bore® 180gr RFN hard cast has almost 800lbs of muzzle energy; far more than any other commercial load in that caliber.

For me personally I carry a 41 Remington® Magnum loaded with HSM® 230gr Keith SWCGC Hardcast.

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David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

I've got a feeling if there's a bear running toward me it won't be urine coming out.

At my official bovernment bear encounter training in Alaska we were taught that the LAST line of bear defense was shooting the bear (we were issued S&W 29's). The recommended procedure was as follows:
1. Shout as loud as you can with or without profanity
2. Blow a police type whistle as loud as you could
3. Fire a shot into the air, and if all else fails,
4 Shoot the bear center mass, then run and hide.
We were told (I never tested this though). that a center mass shot would stop the bear briefly and start an adrenalin rush. In theory, a bear in an adrenalin rush loses the sense of smell and can only find you (to maul you) if he can see you. Note that this procedure was tailored to Alaskan Browns and not Arkansas blacks.

I cannot guarantee this procedure but it was drilled into us every day of training along with other key artic survival procedures. As I reported to my site, my predacessor's body was loaded onto the plane. He had broken one of the other survival rules. That was one powerful message .

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Randy
Provenance nerd

Just offer up your picnic basket.

I carry a .357 pretty much everywhere, and with the right bullets you'll be ok. I would rather shoot a .357 accurately instead of missing with the .44 Magnum. Get some good cast SWC's like the 358429 or 358156 moving at a good clip and it'll do the job.

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...a couple of weeks ago i fell asleep on the couch watching tv...must have been comfortable...cause I slept there til the sun started to rise. My wife heard something and came out to see where I was. She shook me awake...and about ten to twelve feet away on the other side of a sliding glass patio door was a good sized black bear on our deck. It's a hell of a sight for the first thing you see when you wake up. The bear saw us move and went over the deck railing like a shot. My wife grabbed her camera to try and get him through another window...but he saw her again and high tailed it down into the trees. Most black bears here react that way...although we had one that an idiot neighbor was feeding that I had to scare away with a couple of 12 gauge warning shots.

...that always worked on Yogi and Boo Boo...

I think the old Bretta , .22 short, jet is the best carry option! When you encounter an aggressive bear, just shoot your partner in the knee and walk away at a brick pace!

You are referring to a game warden assisting a bear transfer/research team in Montana. The bear got him down and was mauling him.

He drew his four-inch M-66 loaded with unknown to me (service issue) ammo and fired all six in panic. One hit the bear in the heart. It sufficed. Source: editor of, "Field & Stream" (?) , who was present. (Maybe, "Outdoor Life.")

Item two: cop in a New York City zoo killed a polar bear mauling a visitor. One round of lead HP .38 Special in the chest, prob. about in the "sticking place." Instant dead bear.

Item 3: Most PREDATORY bear attacks in N. America are by blacks. One stabbed to death by an angler had stashed 8 or 9 men in a nearby food cache. This was in Canada, reported on in, "Outdoor Life."

I have a box of Remington 165 grain JHP .357 ammo if I ever have to be in bear country. The bullet is constructed for hunting; it isn't just a heavier 158 grain JHP.

Go to a natural history museum or zoo and study bear anatomy. Watch how the zoo bears move and plan your shot angles.

I think a .357 will usually suffice in defensive shootings on black bears, which is what you'll find in the area mentioned.
I'd avoid shooting at the head, but through the nose may reach the brain. Those BB loads sound good. I've never seen them, but they seem fine in principle.

A Federal PR man told me that 158 grain .357 Hydra-Shok is an effective deer load at reasonable range. I wouldn't be too worried if I had to hit a bear in the heart with it.

You aren't helpless without a .44 Magnum. Remember that fisherman and his knife!

Bear pacification strategies by the Kumbaya Society

1. Run up to every bear that you see and greet it in a loud and vociferous manner

2. Give the bear a fist bump or back slap to make the bear feel
like it is one of the family

3. Place a garland of woven buttercups or other accessible wildflowers around the bear's neck

4. Greet the bear with tasty morsels (not including your young children) -- plastic bear-shaped honey squirt bottles work well as you squirt luscious honey all over the bear's face, trail mix, ice cream sandwiches, beef jerky, peanut butter sandwiches,
packets of ham or bologna slices, Laughing Cow cheese triangles, Snickers bars -- all will endear you to the bear and his compadres. Be sure to leave a trail or Reeces Peanut Butter Cups or Milky Ways to your campsite to ensure that the bears feel welcome in furthur interactions with you.

5. Scanty clothing is encouraged so the bears will not harm their claws as they rip thru your clothing searching for furthur morsels.

6. Plan a campfire "grunt-along" with the bears -- play their favorite Celtic classic "Dancing with Bears" as you make Som-Mores by the campfire. Bears are not very delicate when handling graham crackers, Hershey bars and marshmallows when assembling SOm-Mores, so harshly smack bears in the face who are clumsy in handling those delicate ingredients.

7. Play "Pitch and Catch" with the cubs -- this will placate the mother bears who will enjoy your friendly interplay with their offspring -- if you drop a cub, you will get a gentle reminder from the cub's mother. Don't worry, you can survive a severely bitten limb if your tentmate is adept with a tourniquet.

Buffalo Bore 180 grain might not be the best idea for a K frame .357. One or two shots would probably be Ok, but certainly no practicing extensively.

If that works, I'm going to urinate a hexagon around me --
that ought to keep him puzzled -- unless I get that rare bear who is very good at geometry.

If you still plan on carrying a .357 loaded with whatever for Bear make darn sure you file the front sight off good and smooth just in case things don't work out so well and the Doc has to pull it out of your $%^& after the bear puts it there!

I have lived in North Louisiana all my life. I would not worry about black bears at all here. They are more scared of you and will avoid you.
If you do happen to see one just ignore it and it will ignore you.
I would be more concerned about snakes and wild hogs. I usually carry snake shot in the woods here.

Bear spray. Survival/injury rates are not so good with firearms at close range. The experts claim less injuries and better survival rates with the bear spray. No explination to the game warden required.

Thanks for the replies. I usually have a Marlin 60 around for snakes. I think I will just use the 158 grain SWC or some Cor-Lokt. Should be good for bears, hogs, and any other vermin that could pose a threat in my area.

If you are looking for appropriate factory loads, go to Buffalo Bore and buy either the 158 or 180 gr. load. The 180 will give deeper penetration. This ammo is expensive. But it is the most powerful load commercially available that is within SAAMI standards. This ammo in a .357 Magnum revolver will give extremely good results on black bear such as one will encounter in the areas you note. If the Louisiana and Arkansas Dept.'s of Fish and Game have started importing Grizzlies for stocking... all bets are off!

Now... if your going to handload, I'd do a little experimenting. Buy some stiff jacketed 158 gr. and 180 gr. JHP's ... maybe Nosler partition, etc. and also buy or cast up some 158 gr. and 180 gr. Keith or Lead Bullet Technologies bullets. Sit down and look at the loading data in three or four reputable reloading manuals and select three or four powders that give the highest velocities with the bullets you have decided to use. Work up to what you consider to be maximum velocity with each power and bullet. Shoot the bullets into a medium that will allow you to compare penetration/expansion. Then, choose the one that works the best in your revolver, load up enough of them to meet your needs and sally forth into the wonder of the woods/fields! JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

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We have a fair number of black bears in Colorado, in fact many show up around various homes in the woods and occasionally in Suburban Denver. I cannot remember the last time I heard about a bear encounter in Colorado that went bad for the human.

About 10 years ago during a drought in southern Colorado the bears were infesting small towns to find something to eat. In one case a bear ripped the stove vent off an RV while the occupant was cooking breakfast. Said bear sat down and licked the vent clean of the accumulated grease. The occupant's reaction is mercifully lost to history.

That year the Wildlife division was handing out 12 gauge rubber rounds like popcorn to local residents because they couldn't respond to all of the bruin calls.

At least in Colorado, bears would be well down the list of things to worry about in the woods. Moose are more dangerous and have hurt more folks, the last wildlife fatality I can think of was a guy killed by a cougar within shouting distance of an interstate highway on a rec path and that was over a decade ago.

Honestly...you might call your local game warden/parks and wildlife ranger and ask them when the last time they spotted a bear was or had a reported sighting, and certainly the last time they had a reported bear attack.

I'd be stunned if there had been more than a sighting a year of a black bear in Northern LA or southern Arkansas.

I'd be WAY more worried about copper heads in northern LA/southern AR.

-Rob

This is a good approach. When I was a kid growing up in Alaska, my mom would put pebbles in an empty pop can and tie it around my belt to scare the bear away. Must have worked because we never saw any.

To the OP, black bears can be more unpredictable than any other bear. Although skittish and eager to avoid man, I've had them circle around me from afar and come back behind me. Mostly out of curiousity.

My dad always told me that even though they aren't as big as a brownie, you need to watch them closely. We didn't have near as many dealings with them as we did brownies and they usually went the other way.

Stay aware. Carry the heaviest hardest load you can find.

Yep. Make sure you're not looking so hard for the bear that isn't there that you forget to watch where you're stepping. Seriously.

If you'll be in an area open to hunting you shouldn't be in any danger from black bears. They may wreck your campsite when you're not around but usually will skedaddle at first sight of a human. It's places where hunting is banned or restricted, or where contact with humans is practically nonexistent, that have the highest incidents of bear attacks. Park bears and those in urban areas, have no fear of humans and associate us with food. It's a small step to associate us as being food, especially for a young bear. Conversely, in the remote areas of the far north there are bears that have had minimal contact, if any, with humans. We are potential food in that instance. To paraphrase the old gorilla joke: What does a 500 pound bear eat? Any thing it wants! But... I think a 357 loaded with hard cast 158 gr or heavier would be fine, just in case. It's strictly a close range shooting scenario here, under 10 yards and probably much shorter. Would you have any justification to shoot at longer range?
Personally, I worry more about threats from our two legged brethren than old ursus americanus, statistics prove it.
John

l tho......

I live in country with very healthy populations of both black bears and grey wolves. Even though I know the chances of being bothered by these or any other (four legged) predators in my geography are so small they defy measurement, I still choose to carry a sidearm. Given the risk you've described, the .357 is a perfectly prudent choice. If nothing else, it's a great noise maker. Also, it's a serious tool for protection from the much more dangerous two legged predators who lurk about. I've long ago decided I don't care if others consider me a sissy for hauling a hog leg. To each their own.

PC

Daniel Boone just used his Bowie knife........as for me I prefer my 45-70. I have some 195 gr hard cast lead for my 357. Loaded stout. I figure they'll do ok if I don't die of fright

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Well thanks for all the replies, I did not expect to get so many responses. We do not have many black bears around here and most are docile. I suppose wild hogs and snakes are more of an issue, as well as two legged threats. I usually carry the 158 grain SWC Magnum round from Remington. Seems like it can penetrate more than the JSP.

While I would not purposely set out to hunt Bear with a .357 Magnum, I do carry my 3" M65 with me while hiking in the mountains and stoke it with 180 grain hard cast Buffalo Bore .357 Magnums. Click on the link below and look at the spec's. I have verified the statistics through my own Chronograph and have found their claims to be spot on.

Where I go hiking the Black Bears usually range from small to medium and I feel while not optimum, the load mentioned here should take care of business should the need arise.



https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=100

Chief38

Buffalo Bore has 180 grn. .357 loads that will do the job. They also have an excellent article on handguns for bear defense. I've had to shoot one with a .38 +p load - head shot. Your not going to have a lot time to aim. You'll have even less time to deploy your bear spray. Bears are not a laughing matter. An acquaintance was mauled by a blackie - 235 stitches!
By all means carry a handgun for a last ditch defense, but if you must be traipsing around in bear country you should carry a rifle or at least a shot gun. Good Luck!

SOUND ADVICE. I carry both.....
• Handgun - 41 Remington® Magnum w/Federal® Premium® 250gr CastCore® WFN Bullets
• Rifle - 444 Marlin w/Beartooth® 300gr WFNGC Bullets

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David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

Do you really think it's a good idea to bring back from the Abyss a 1 year old BEAR THREAD? It's not bad enough we get a new one almost every month so now we need to bring back zombie bear threads too? Why do new members always do that?

No offense meant NorthWoods1900, welcome to the forum...

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