My Dad has carried a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special for about 15 years now.

His only other gun is a SBH .44 Magnum.

I've shot his gun more than a few times and liked it,
but have been wondering if there is anything better than a 240 Semi-Wadcutter, or a 210 gr. handloaded JHP
for that gun or other .44 Specials these days.

I've also shot Silvertips and the Federal Lead hollow-point loads as well.

Factory level Cowboy loads seemed pretty tame in all of my guns.

Thats said.

My two favorite bullet these days for 9mm, 38+P, 357 SIG and even .357 Magnum are the Gold Dots
and newer on the market, BARNES X bullet.

Both designs have been proven on the street and hunting fields- with the most data going to the Speer
bullet.

The 200 grain SPEER Gold Dot in .44 Special just looks plain wicked.

Deep and wide cavern for the hollow-point and it's also a bonded bullet that holds onto the jacket for the most part
in testing that I've seen with the larger caliber Gold Dots, or bonded Defense JHPs, ect.

Same bullet- but different names.

Advertised velocity for the SPEER load is 875 fps, with energy at 340 ft/lbs

You can also buy the 200 gr. BLAZER Gold Dot load that's identical in both muzzle velocity and energy.

Know for high-performance ammo:

DOUBLE TAP, steps up to the plate with an advertised velocity of 980 fps for the applicable 2.5 inch barrel, but no energy figures,
however - it should be near the Speer specs.


You can see some other .44 Special loads as well.

240 gr. BBWC and 210 gr. Remington JHP that are both handl-loads with less power than the Speer or DT loads.

These run about 800-820 fps have always shot nicely through my various .44 Mags and a S&W Model 624 back when I lived in Idaho,
and had both a room and time to reload.

Not too shabby through the Bulldog as well.



In looking at the more expensive but more advanced (according to some people ) TAC-XP load.

It is both longer than the SPEER Gold Dots and the DT Bonded Defense load, but also slower for the 2.5 inch
barrel mark at 900 fps.


Solid copper/lead free technology with a ICBM missile profile- and a deeper cavity than the Gold Dots.

No need to be bonded...it has 100% expansion and also full weight retention in most media/testing.

You can see it alongside the Bonded Defense 200 grain load a very old SPEER Lawman lead round nose .38 Special
bullet from my Dad's old police K-38 stash of ammo.

We have came a long ways in the past 25 years of ammo evolution and some think the X bullet to be the
zenith in both defensive and hunting ammunition.

Yes, it is more expensive than a traditional JHP, but the cost is coming down a bit..especially for hand loaders.

There seems to be a number of people who shoot and carry it from Double Tap in .380/9mm, .40, .357 SIG, the 38+P/357M

and of course- .44 Special!

Others like it in Cor-Bon DPX or even from Wilson, and love the very adequate/tactical penetration and perfect expansion it provides.

I don't know of any Double Tap defensive shootings with the TAC-XP other than in hunting situations, but the DPX
has performed very well on the streets in actual shootings.

Some savvy cops and ccw holders use DPX or nothing else!


Well, whether you decide Speer or Double Tap GOLD DOTS, you will be getting powerful ammo for your .44 SPECIAL that you can
count on.

Proven Gold Dots bullets that have been dropping bad guys and game for decades!

Or you can choose the BARNES TAC-XP bullet that is gaining steam across the country each day.


Me, I like them both!

I'm hoping to get out and shoot this ammo through the Bulldog, but it might be a while with this heat wave here in Washington state.



For more information:

DoubleTap Ammunition

DoubleTap Ammunition



I think I'll save up for a 396 Night Guard now.

Thanks for viewing!

KEV

Thanks.

.44 special seems to be an under discussed defense round. Nice Charter BTW.

Thanks, it has a deep blue finish and excellent action for a Charter
Bulldog or any CA gun.

I've had bad luck with S&Ws in the past- but still have an eye on the
396 NG.

Kind of miss that beautiful XS front sight that was on my LCRs..

Using one size speed loader for my .44 Specials has some appeal as well.

I also have more trust in a .44 Special than I do a .38 Special.

I'm sure that I'm not alone.

Ive got a Charter Arms Bulldog, its in pieces all wrapprd up in a bag. A friend of mine darn near lost his life to this gun. Im not sure what kind of metal they used in them but it is not real good. He was not a reloader and only shot this firearm on the range on spare occasions using only factory ammo. This was his main carry gun. It blew up and so he brought it to me to see if I could repair it. The cost of the new parts, cylinder, ejectors parts was to costley compared to a newer Charter Arms that he liked. So he brought the new CA and let me keep his old one. Im happy to report that he likes the new revolver and has not had any accendents with it. I guess I would be kinda carefull in using hot loads in the CA revolvers. I dont know anything much about them, but the old "you get what you pay for" is truer today than ever.

The Charter Arms Bulldog I talked about in the earlier post was a 5 shot, serial number 2861XX. I sure wouldnt want anyone to get hurt with one of these. Anways again I know nothing about these revolvers and have no personal experience with them. I do have the one I spoke of and the story is true. So please be carefull.

I have a S&W Thunder Ranch 21-4 with which I am very pleased. It produces nice little groups with the Winchester Cowboy Action load using the plain lead bullet. The Speer Gold Dot 200 gr. JHP's are pricey, but they are truly the business when one wants power in a .44 Special load! I've not tried any of the .44 Special loads offered by Buffalo Bore. But, I'm working up to it. I figure some of their 240 gr. stuff should be just about ideal for use in my 21-4 when I've got it with me scouting the woods and fields preparing for deer season. In fact, that stuff ought to be just what the doctor ordered if later on during the season the opportunity comes to hand to use that 21-4 to collect a deer.

__________________
<><

I carry the Barnes 200gr Copper XPB's loaded at 950 fps from Reed's Ammo. I really like it. It 's loaded to get excellent penetration and expansion.

I have the Blazer gold dots loaded in my for 296, and if I were ammo shopping today I'd given serious thought to the DPX. That said, my default for most revolvers is going to be a modest velocity SWC; probably the best choice for most.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

My preference of PD ammo when I carry my .44 special is the Winchester Silvertip. But to tell the truth ANY thing in .44 special is gonna hurt.

I have 3 Bulldogs and a Rossi M720.
I don't usually carry them, but when I do occasionally take one out,
I load them with Hornady 165gr FTX Critical Defense.
Nice round.

Stu

__________________
NRA Benefactor/Cert Instructor

I don't own a .44 Special but I do shoot Double Tap and Speer Gold Dot ammo and I'm very happy with it.

IMO finding something that's accurate in your revolver is more important than what bullet it uses because most current ammo uses a premium bullet and the best bullet in the world will do you no good unless you make good hits. Load up with what you shoot well...

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

You should look on underwoodammo.com. I shoot their stuff. Decent quality and a pleasure to deal with. Good luck.

Please say more about the Federal 200 grain lead HP load.

Have you chronographed it through at least a four-inch bbl.?

Chronographed the basic 246 grain lead RN load?

I chronoed several factory 44 Special loads thru a 4 5/8" Ruger FlatTop when I first got it.

200 grainers run about 900-910 on average.
246 grainers run about 710-720 on average.

I have no experience with DT or Buffalo Bore ammo, I reload, however, close to BB specs (200 grain XTP @ 1130 fps, 250 SWC @ 1060 fps).

Although some like Barnes rifle bullets (for hunting) people that really shoot lots of game with them are reporting that often (too often) the game runs off, presumably, due to poor/no expansion. I surely wouldn't use them after disappointing experiences involving accuracy, pressure, velocity and fouling in 3 different calibers.

Every test and there are lots of them, that have tested Corbon, Federal etc Barnes rounds in pistols have found them them superior. I can't speak to their rifle rounds, but their pistol rounds will do the job. Feel free to link any test you know of showing anything different, I'd like to see them.

As I CLEARLY stated (I thought), I was referring to rifle ammo used for hunting. However, your defensiveness mirrors that of rifle hunters that use Barnes. I wonder why that is?

Common sense should tell us that a (relatively) soft lead bullet bonded to a thin gilding metal jacket will expand under more varied conditions than a hard, monolithic copper slug with a hole in one end. But I digress. Randy Barnes was a fantastic promoter. Although all of his efforts to "help along" the outlawing of lead bullets mostly weren't successful, it did get done in parts of CA, which launched him.

His X-Bullet, again, for rifles, had so many problems that he eventually had to quit making them in favor of a "new and improved" model that has 3 little rings around it to engage the rifling. These were meant to decrease the fouling, accuracy and pressure problems. They are mostly light for caliber so that, hopefully, the handloader will get enough velocity out of them to make them expand at longer distances.

During the X Bullet's manufacture, there were 1000s of us that tried them with poor results but, I think because they were something new, every gun rag you could name (and a lot of rifle fanatics) sang their praises. If Al gore could market like Randy Barnes, we'd all be on bicycles.

I started out just answering a poster's question on 44 Special velocities. Apologize for the thread drift.

Defensiveness? You posted anecdotal info with no quantitative data and indirectly questioned the validity my posting. I responded to it. If you were only referencing rifle rounds, why bring it up, we were talking pistol rounds. Clearly you meant to infer that if the rifle rounds in your opinion are inferior, so are the pistol rounds.

Here's a link for pistol ammo testing done on a lot of different rounds by someone who's considered a wound and ammo expert. His credentials are an arm long, including being part of the F.B.I. testing group.

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

This is a public study with open permission to re-post.

That should end the debate about Barnes bullets for pistols.

First, thanks so much for answering my .44 velocity question.

As for Barnes bullets, a friend of mine, another gun writer, tried Barnes rifle bullets. The Barnes PR lady who dealt with him suggested that he get some of their special bore solvent, as the bullets foul so badly. Even with that solvent, he had a DEVIL of a time in cleaning his rifles fired with Barnes bullets.
He told me that he'd never use them again.

States Rightest may call his account "anecdotal", but I've known that guy for over 30 years and I believe him. He had no axe to grind, and really wanted to be able to use the Barnes ammo.

Because Barnes does have a rep for making rifle ammo that is hard to clean after, I think it was fully okay to mention this, as many will have reservations about their handgun ammo, too. If Randy Barnes lobbied to outlaw lead ammo in California, I'm not buying anything that Barnes makes or will make. That would be a disgusting act for an ammo maker!

I'm sorry that States Rightest saw fit to attack your post. I found it very interesting. But he may be correct that Barnes handgun ammo doesn't have any special cleaning or other issues to make it undesirable.

I will say I agree with the thoughts on Barnes rallying against lead bullets. I'm going to research that, that was news to me. If I find and I have no reason to think I won't, Barnes has been pushing the no lead agenda, I will have to reconsider supporting anything he makes, whether it works or not.

I'll happily admit you've educated me on that aspect of the issue. My post was based on the fact I don't post offhand info on something that can get a man killed. Some go with whatever American Rifleman is pushing this week and jump on here touting it. I actually spend hours researching what works and what does not, including my own shooting tests. I'm sorry if I went off, but it touched a nerve, so many people just assume and critique this issue, without a clue about actual fact.

As for the rifle ammo, I distance shoot, so the thought of using Barnes has never even crossed my mind. I have no reason to debate it's worth. If you say it sucks, so be it. I know my Dad kept shooting deer with that Hornady Flex tip **** and they kept running off. He was going to give up on the .308, which was silly. I switched him to a good old Winchester round and they started dropping like being hit with a bat. So I'm familiar with the fact some magazines/authors will say anything about whatever is pushed at the moment, that's why I check myself.

Maybe that makes my approach clearer.....

Here is a look at the Buffalo Bore
200 gr. hard cast full wadcutter (at a claimed 1000 fps.) This is
the only 44 round they make that is rated for the Bulldog (wimpy
enough to be safe for the shooter).

I mention this only in passing as I haven't done much with the
Buffalo rounds as the Speer GD's shoot so well thru the Bulldog.

7 grains of Universal under the 200 gr GD bullet fairly reproduces
the Speer round.



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Nemo

Also a 44 Special fan, I own a couple of them, one being a Rossi 720 with a 3-inch barrel. I don't have the chronograph results handy, but the Gold Dots did everything that can be asked, bonded-core bullets are the real deal in defensive handgun ammo. I also like W-W Silvertips and PDX loads, but the Gold Dots seem to shoot better in every caliber I've tested, and so far that includes a half-dozen calibers or more. The Gold Dots are relatively easy to find, don't cost $2 a shot, and work wonderfully. I don't see the need for anything else.

ClarkstonCZ: Love the old CA Bulldog, I live just over the border that separates our states. I shoot at Diamondback. If you ever want to unload that CA let me know.

Tom

Has anyone got a S&W M-624 with a four or 6.5-inch barrel, and what do you think of it?

I'd also be very interested in seeing who shoots the Federal lead SWC-HP round in .44 Special. I hope they still make that. I found their 225 grain equivalent in .45 Colt to be accurate, but never shot anything living with it. I suspect that it kills quite well, with the big flat point, even if the bullet doesn't expand, which it may.

What'd you shoot those bullets into, at what range, and from which gun? Impressive results...

TS, those three bullets were shot into wetpack, (saturated phone books) from the M-24, at about 20 feet. Velocity averaged 790 fps. This was for the (standard) brass-cased Gold Dot ammo. The aluminum-cased Blazer seems to be a different animal, averaging 990 fps from the 6.5" barrel of my M-24, but hitting just over 1300 fps out of a 20" Marlin. The standard GD load out of the Marlin only averaged 1130, so there is a notable difference in the powders they used in both.

This photo shows the standard Gold Dots after testing in wetpack and milk jugs from the Rossi.......results were identical regardless of the medium.

I have model 624's in both four and 6.5 inch, both fitted with Herrett Roper style stocks. The are both very accurate in my hands and with my old eyes. Love em both but I shoot the four incher most of the time because it balances better and I can see the sights easier. I shot a 108lb whitetail two years ago with the four incher at 20 yards. It ran around in a little circle and then dropped, kicked a little and died. My load was Skeeter's Unique load under a hard cast Keith #429421.

To a fellow Texan, I bought a spare four inch 624 at the Dallas Arms Collector's show last year. The pistol, a new Alessi holster, box, tools and papers, and a new unopened 100 round box of brass cost $750 in a FTF deal with another Texan older than me. My wife was ecstatic because she likes the 24's and 624's too.

Good deals can be found. If you want one, check out the Dallas show.

Charlie

__________________
SWCA # 2294

Stopping Power Forums has several .44 Spcl. tests with SNUBBIES. Since the OP shows a CA Bulldog I'll assume that's what this thread is about.

In their 4 layer denim/calibrated ballistic gel tests FROM A 2" SNUBBY BARREL the Corbon DPX was tops followed by the latest generation of Win. ST. The vaunted Speer 200 gr. GD fell flat on it's face as did the Fed. 210 gr. LSWCHP.

I have a DA CA Bulldog and the .44 Spcl. DPX shoots dead nuts POA.

How this thread got into long barrelled Rugers and cleaning hunting rifles I know not.

Have you got a URL for this data? I am looking at their site and it's not popping right out.
I'll admit I am not the most patient or talented at searching.

Boy is that stuff (the CorBon) expensive! $46.50 for 20? Wow.

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Nemo

Gold Dot test:

StoppingPower.net Forums - Speer Blazer .44 spl. 200 gr. Gold Dot

Federal LHP:

StoppingPower.net Forums - Federal .44 spl. LHP

Win. Silver Tip:

StoppingPower.net Forums - Winchester .44 Spl. 200 gr. Silver Tip Loads

Corbon DPX:

StoppingPower.net Forums - Perma Gel Tests

Thanks Boge.

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Nemo