If you had to pop an intruder, what round would you want in your gun? Gold Dot? Ranger SXT? Federal HST? Hornady? Golden Saber? CorBon? And why?

Most of the reading I've done on several sites says Cor-Bon 115 +P JHP. Though personally I'll be trying a few boxes and going with whatever feeds most reliably with the best accuracy.

Synergy-I535

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S&W SD9 VE

Wouldn't matter. Placement accounts for about 95% of effectiveness. All the rest, big power, gimmick bullets, etc. makes up the other 5%.

It depends on the caliber, but as CP1969 said, the bottom line is the one that hits the vital area the most.

12ga 00 buck 9 38 cal pellets

Oh my!
Waiting for results of a magic bullet.
Please tell.

Emory

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Hard To Kill

Use Black Talon and you can scare people to death, even if you cannot hit them. Well they have to be pretty stupid and believe marketing hype. Even though I have some of the ammo that just keeps on killing, it's a collectors item, so I'll use whatever load I have at hand that I can hit the target with.

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i did alot of looking and i made my mind up on hydra-shocks. it seems to be a fairly old bullet but still exceeds FBI standards. after that i would have to look and go off the numbers. i think golden sabers were near the top for next in line though...

What ever you can accuratly and quickly put on target!!!!!
with out harming a loved one

I like 12ga #4 Buckshot a little better for HD. A 2.75" shell holds 27X 24 Cal pellets.

By the way, 00 buckshot is actually 33 Caliber in size NOT that the bad guy will notice the difference between 9X 38 Cal or 9X 33 Cal pellets hitting him square in the chest! LOL

000 Buck = 36 Cal
00 Buck = 33 Cal
0 Buck = 32 Cal
#1 Buck = 30 Cal
#2 Buck = 27 Cal
#3 Buck = 25 Cal
#4 Buck = 24 Cal

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Whatever is in the pistol that's closest at hand. And I try to make sure it's Hornady Critical Duty. But as mentioned earlier, placement is the key.

"Pop an intruder"? Assuming you mean a person intent on doing me
bodily harm managing to get into my home while I'm there? I'd want
it to be a big loud pop. The kind of pop made by 2 3/4" magnum 12 ga
00 12 pellet buckshot.

Inside the house 00 buck. Outside the house anything that starts with 357 magnum.

I prefer to start off with a welcome to my plantation cocktail or two of Glaser Blue, followed up with an attention getting entre of FMJ, and if you still have room for Jello, then a JHP for dessert. If after all this, you still want more entertainment, then we'll toast with an after dinner 12 guage cordial called The Shorty made famous by Remington 870.

Cal.,Guage,barrel length needs to taken in, as well as velosity and payload.

Minimum,maximum and over penetration is another factor,for in the house loads.

Are you holding or going after the BG? You learn in SD classes what is the proper thing to do, with each type of weapon that you own. It is not always the best thing ,to go after the BG , poking a long 12 Ga barrel around courners of the house........ or not having the correct system, eqiupment and knowledge for the task.

Lots of A,B,C's that go into the right bullet or pellet.

Rifle,shotgun or hand gun most any old thing will work well if you land the shot between the shirt pockets. Being able to land the shot there is the trick!

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Stay safe people!

Waited to see if anyone else made this point...

Shooting someone is the last thing you want to do. Anticipating and avoiding threats if possible, developing the correct mindset and training all come well before ammo selection.

Nothing hand-held that misses an area of the body that immediately shuts down the threat (like the brain) is 100% effective at terminating a fight. So definitely have your 9 mm/.40/.45 with expanding bullets, or a shotgun handy, but try not to get into a situation where "popping" someone is necessary.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Person with intent to cause bodily harm after being shot:
"Ha Ha Ha Ha. You only used the 33 caliber pellets instead of the 38. Now I'm going to beat you up. Ha Ha Ha Ha"

9 rounds of 230 grain Speer Gold Dots from my S&W 4506.

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Dann Fassnacht
Hoquiam, WA

After studying the matter for over 30 years and consulting with engineers in the industry in my capacity as a firearms writer and after talking with police and a physician who studied wound ballistics before advising Dallas PD to adopt lead HP .38 ammo to replace their old RN bullets, I've settled on Federal HST or Speer's Gold Dot. Some others also work so well that they are probably as good, at least most of the time.

Sorry for that first run-on sentence, but I want to make clear that I didn't just read posts on the Internet to reach my conclusions.

The reason why I chose these is largely that they expand well and penetrate well and are unlikely to shed the lead core. They penetrate a variety of mediums like glass and denim about as well as anything short of a FMJ. In fact, in some applications, I'd use a FMJ, but not for typical home defense, which is the issue in this thread.

FMJ is largely denigrated because it won't expand. But the person whom I know who has shot more people than anyone else using a handgun (15; nine with a 9mm and six with a .45) used GI ammo quite successfully, largely because he can shoot very well indeed. But he did have to fire more than once if the bullet wasn't immediately effective. He found the .45 a little more potent, but not vastly so. He prefers the .45, but ammo was harder to obtain in Iraq, and spare magazines were at a premium. Now in private life, he has both 9mms and .45s, generally carrying a Colt Govt. Model which he has tuned slightly. His ammo of preference in both calibers is HST. But that was denied him in military service, due to the Hague Accords. (Not the Geneva Convention, as some think.)

He never hit anyone with either caliber who didn't drop, but in a few cases, finishing shots were needed. He was unable in a few cases to determine for sure that the enemy died, as he was on the move, under fire. (He has been wounded three times.)

Additionally, I was acquainted with the late David W. Arnold. Some of you will recall him as an editor of Petersen's Handguns. Before moving to the USA, David was a senior police official in then-Rhodesia. (He was born in South Africa, doing his national service there as part of a tank crew.)

He had access to after-action reports from both soldiers and anti-terrorist police units. The ammo used was normally FMJ military style. The 9mm fared pretty well, whether from pistols or SMG's. He didn't feel too unarmed while carrying his issued P-38, although his real preference was for a Colt .45 auto. I have no way of knowing how well placed those bullets were, and I'm sure that the average soldier or cop there wasn't a world class marksman, like David. (He shot on the Rhodesian national IPSC team.)

If it interests anyone, my home defense handguns are either .38 or .357 revolvers, using Plus P .38 Gold Dot or Hydra-Shok ammo, or a 9mm Beretta M-92FS with 124 grain HST. Snubs or three-inch barrels get Speer's Short Barrel 135 grain load.

I also have some lead HP 158 grain ammo from Federal and Remington. Dallas police experience with that basic load (they issued Winchester at least some of the time) was positive. One officer killed six suspects with it, using his issued S&W M-64. They also provided Winchester Silvertip 145 grain JHP .357 ammo for those wanting to use a .357. The only comment that I've been able to get about the .357 load is that it was "extremely effective."

I do believe that some bullets work better than others, but agree that placement is the single greatest factor in stopping power.

Oh: in event of a likely riot or looters, I'd load my 12 gauge and maybe a .303 which has a 10-shot magazine. The load for the .303 is Winchester 180 grain Power Point hunting ammo. I will be quite surprised if either doesn't stop an enemy with one shot, let alone two. I could use a 'scope sighted hunting rifle in other calibers, but proving self defense might be difficult if I had to shoot anyone too far away. It's not out of the question, if he was delivering accurate fire toward me, but is an unlikely situation. (If there is a total breakdown in social order, long range capability is more likely to be needed.)

Oh: I just remembered reading the late Che Guevara's book on guerilla warfare, of which he had extensive experience. He recommended the .45 for pistols, as it worked better than 9mm from a handgun. I think he said that the 9mm was okay in SMG's. But I read that book in high school, which was a long time ago.

i guess I'm a little old school & use the Black Talon.
I have it in 9mm & .45, not for sale.
They are suppose to open up like a flower when inside the body with, I believe with five or six jagged flowers. Nasty stuff, ouch.

The caliber wars will go on forever but shot placement rules here. I carry either a Colt Cobra or Smith 442 in retirement loaded with the old style 158 grain +P FBI load. During my 30 year LEO career I had to use my service revolver in the line of duty more than once and that load did the job every time. I'm sure the other loads mentioned here work as well or better, but I'll cast my lot w/what worked in my past.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Me too. All of my several revolvers are loaded with this "Old School" Technology; it is a SUPERB LOAD. Primary home defense weapons are two 20ga shotguns loaded with buckshot.

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David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

All my house and carry guns get loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs.

Penetration with Glasers suck...They can leave a nasty surface wound, but usually not deep-enough to really be all the effective...And if you have to shoot through heavy clothing, etc., forget about it.

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Dann Fassnacht
Hoquiam, WA

I prefer 147Gr Bonded in my 9c's; more push but less snap.
Tomac

If we are talking about protection of your home (inside the house) then long distance target acquisition is not an issue. In my home, protection of others in the house is my first concern. Keeping in mind that the intruder must be neutralized.
My first choice is my Rem. 870 with low brass 7 1/2 shot, for indoor use. The only reason for a handgun is for low profile and ease of concealed carry. If we must move down to a pistol or revolver then my first choice is Glaser "Blue", for in house use. My best friend is a 30 year nurse who has worked in autopsy and has seen, up close and personal, what this round has done. Having said that, any round placed in the correct location will take a person out. The Glaser "should not" jump from room to room, helping to protect others.
Any other ammo that you may use inside your home, I feel, should be of a type or design that will reduce the probability of over penetration. As we have all been taught, know not only your target but beyond should be known.
Hornady Critical Defense, Magtech, and Cor-Bon I have found to be good reliable ammunition. As you know there are other great rounds out there. It always comes down to what works best in your weapon and for you, you must be comfortable with the ammo. If needed reduced-recoil ammo may be a good choice.
The single most important matter in protecting your home and family is you, staying calm and acquiring your (correct) target. Many of us have had the training but never had to use it. Hope you never have to encounter an intruder. Remember most encounters of this type are less than ten feet.
Good Luck.

A similar question was asked some time ago and one of the best answers was "Whatever my wife feels comfortable shooting".

No matter what round or caliber you use read what was said to you. Practice,Practise, practice. Most of the time I carry a 642-2 with .38 silver tips. I also carry a 25 caliber. But with this one you have to practice until the action is automatic and the target acclemation is assured. It is on you.

For the house I have an old double barreled 12 guage loaded with number 7.5. Comes up quick and makes an impression when closed. RAther Loud. When I was a Peace officer it served its purpose in an attempted home invasion.

In short, nothing is "best". Some loads/calibers are better than others under certain circumstances. Many people simply buy whatever their local Police use because it's most defensible in court. And you will go to court if you have to shoot someone. Hopefully not criminal court, but to civil court for the wrongful death suit the decedents family almost always seem to bring.

Buckshot in my 20ga. A close second, old Remington 158gr SJHP in my 357 mag. A distant third, 230gr PMC Starfire HP in my 45acp!

What's the best? A lot of bullets? Empty the whole magazine

I've never shot anyone so I base my choices on what I've personally seen when shooting into a target and looking at expansion. I also prefer to carry something where recoil and flash are not too much of a problem. For me the best results I've seen are listed below in the calibers I carry for self defense.

.38 Spl in 4" barrel (Remington Golden Saber 125 gr +P)
.38 Spl in 2" j-frame (Hornady Critical Defense 110gr +P)
.357 in 6" barrel (Magtech Gaurdian Gold 125 gr)
.357 in 4" barrel (Hornady 158 gr HP)
9mm in 4" barrel (Federal Hydra Shock JHP)

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Ephesians 6 (Armor of God)

Best? I cannot say what is best for SD ammo. I can only give my opinion. It is my opinion that a good 1911 loaded with 230 gr. FMJ's will be very effective at across the room/down the hall distances for SD/HD. Such a round eliminates any concern about expansion. There will be none. Such a round eliminates any concern about lack of penetration. There will be plenty. Properly directed to the center of mass the result should be that the subject will immediately calm down and cease to be a threat. If this is not the immediate result, one can always fire another shot.

As to the potential of over-penetration, just about any SD/HD round will completely penetrate a subject. There might be some individuals who will be so large that this would not be a problem. But typical men are not NFL linebackers. And on typical men, just about any decent SD/HD round will almost certainly exit unless it hits a obstruction of bone, etc.

My own thought is that should it ever be necessary to protect myself or my family in a SD/HD incident, I want the round I employ to give sufficient penetration that vital organs, etc. will be reached regardless of the angle at which engagement occurs... or what barriers might be interposed.

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<><

If you had to drive to the store, what's the best vehicle to get you there?

First we do have options;

1. The dogs will sound the alarm first. I'm a light sleeper and if my 5 cats are making noise the dogs won't sound off but if its not the cats the dogs will sound off.
2. Using a Mickey Mantle home run slugger (baseball bat) is very stealthy if you have the room to swing it. But there's a sack shot too right?
3. Turn the misses loose on him (just kidding)
4. Shotgun 12ga with "00" buck.
5. A 9mm luger, 38special, 357mag or 44 mag with frag bullets. Remember standard bullets will go though the invader, your house and may end up in your neighbors house too.


I like the 12ga "00" buck for first line defence. But i been thinking of looking into the new frag bullets for upclose and personal work too.

Remember with an intruder in the house we must teach our wives were only going to say this once, "cover your ears"...... Plus the first ratchet of the 12ga should end a confrontation. On my 12ga i have the sling full of "00" buck and the stock shell holder full of the 400gr slugs incase its a bear comming for din-din. I sleep with my 9mm/41mag anyway incase.

Depends on caliber. If you believe the studies (and some don't), these seem to work:

9mm: Winchester 127 grain JHP +P+ and Federal 9BPLE (115 grain JHP +P+)

.40: Federal 155 grain Hydra-Shok, Winchester 180 grain Bonded JHP

.45 ACP: Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shok

38 Special: 135 grain Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel, Winchester 158 grain Lead Hollow Point +P.

.357 Magnum: 125 grain JHP (there are issues with this round and flame cutting, so do your research), Winchester 145 grain Silver Tip.

That said, placement of the shot is the first issue.

Hornady Critical Duty is my preference or otherwise Hornady Critical Defense if I can't get critical Duty

Federal HST

By the recommendation of my sales guy, who is a retired medical examiner, I have my .38 2" snubnose loaded with Federal Nyclad and my M&P 9C loaded with Federal Tactical HST. He has seen the effects first hand and thats good enough for me. Besides, the HST loads and shoots well for me.