I guess I have a mental block. I can't help but to think that the 9mm is an inferior round. The .380 even more so. I love the .40 however. The .45 is ok also but not as fast as the .40. So that said, I like and only own semi-autos. What could this mental block possibly be?

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Maybe it's just mental?

Amen. Some people have to jump on EVERY band wagon that comes along.

Probably just opinion like anything else.

The whole 'stopping power' thing is much more perception than reality. There are cases of people being stopped by one shot from a .22 and others of people absorbing an unreal number rounds from heavier calibers that keep coming.

I don't think I would want to depend on a .22, but if it's all you have it is better than nothing. I think any thing from .380 up in a gun that you're comfortable with and shoot well is adequate.

And that's why there are so many cartridges and guns available. So everyone can have the ones they want.

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Illegitimus Non Carborundum

You've read too much baloney. Just kidding. Seriously, the people who have the opportunity to know first-hand about this stuff almost invariably will tell you to buy the best equipment you can afford (gun and ammunition) and to practice so you have a reasonable chance of putting your shots where you want them. If you do that, agonizing about one caliber over another (if both are using the best modern ammunition) is probably more of a waste of time than it is productive. That said, if you are more comfortable and confident with a particular gun and caliber, what's wrong with that? It's bound to be an aid to your shooting.

All the usual auto pistol rounds seem a bit wimpy to me, compared to my early pistol shooting days when about the only guns I fired were .44 and .41 Magnum revolvers.

"I love the .40 however."

If I were you, I would carry a .40.

Just mental.

Here's a good video comparing the 9 to the 45 ACP, both with Corbon DPX. As they tested (if you go all the way to the end) "Terminal Performance is Functionally Identical"

9mm vs 45ACP PART 1: Cor-Bon DPX - YouTube

I love my M&P 9 FS. Have shot different 45s including the M&P, but for me I always come back to the 9.

Shooting well is the key! If you have to shoot some one with a full power .357 you will probably have to deal with collateral damage the bullet will cause after it passes through the original target! You can shoot an intruder in your living room and accidently kill the little old lady sleeping next door.

You know what they say about opinions...

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Oh well, what the hell.

No Mike, I'm unaware of that particular saying....perhaps you could 'splain it to us all!!!!

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paws for friendship

"I'm up on a tightrope"!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

Leon Russell

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

It matters little what you shoot em with, it matters greatly that you place your shot well.

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Stay safe people!

I guess that means all opinions "smell"?

Maybe your eye sight is so bad you need the biggest holes possible in your targets to see what is happening ?

Could be that you are very tired when you are shooting and need the heavy recoil to wake you up, so you can fire the next shot ?

Sure hope you find out what the problem is...........

The handy-dandy abbreviated version? Everybody has an opinion...

I just got one infraction, don't push it!

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Oh well, what the hell.

Some of us are Lawyers and have 2, which one do you want to buy?

For years is was the 9 vs 45 debate...... one "bad" FBI shoot out and we compromise on the 10mm which is too much for most Agents so they compromise again to the .40... the .38 spl. of the .357 magnum.

Never could find any of that pistol ammo that throws the bad guy backwards across the room ..........

So.......... being too old to care.... and to each his/her ( being PC) own........

I vote 9mm then .45 for EDC........ "go ahead make my day!"

FMJ....... .45 only

PCC (MP-5 or a Beretta CX-9 Storm) nine is fine......... we are not here to spray and pray...... but to place 2 fast and well placed shots..

Expecting a gun fight...... .308, .223, 12/20 gage...... actually I'd just try to stay home that day...LOL

Edit: Heck......... forgot the .357Sig..... maybe that will throw the bad guys across the room! It sure sounds bada.___!!!

Ask RFK what he thinks of the stopping power of a .22.

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Back to back World War Champs.

The 9MM round is used by the military/police so not a lot of recoil and to stay on target better. That round has killed many.

More rounds per pound of gear, as far as military is concerned (is what I hear).

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Is it safe?

We would all look a little silly if we carried a 12 ga pump full of slugs.

You've read too many posts and books by "experts" who know little would be my guess.

Anything from .38 up is a good self defense round. Are some rounds a little better than others? Maybe, it depends on the situation, person using it etc, but the 9mm is a fine SD round.

I'm surprised these threads don't get the instant lock, if for nothing else, the sheer redundancy of the subject. But, since we are here, let me ask a couple of questions:

If a Bear were carrying a 9mm, would he be better off with one in the chamber? What caliber is best for defending yourself from Grizzlies carrying 9mm's?

Here is some interesting research on this topic by Greg Ellifritz. His conclusion is that in the common handgun calibers there is little difference in the real world. He found that shotguns and rifles give a much more effective bang.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association

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I like Ike.

No offense, but you kind of misread the study.

What says is that the average number of rounds to incapacitation is similar. In other words, of the people a handgun stopped, what is the average rounds fired? They are comparable. What it also says is that the majority of rounds had a similar lethality percentage. What is not contained in that study is the time it took to kill. There is a difference between a fully functional BG firing at you who dies 12 hours later and one who dies 10 seconds after being shot and did not have the time to kill you.

The main finding you overlooked is one of the critical ones, % of people not incapacitated and there is a sizable difference in those percentages once you go below the .380 according to the study.

As far a rifles and shotguns being better than a pistol, in most calibers, that's a given.

Who cares, shoot what you want, I do.
Glen

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NRA Life 1969
OGCA

"9mm seems inferior to me. Why?"



Because it is......


Dennis.

Definitely an opinion. Maybe you'll get over it, maybe not. After 41 years of marriage, my M-in-L still thinks her daughter and I will never last.

If you don't think a 22 can be lethal with one shot, ask Chris Lane's family.

So can a wing nut falling of of a plane, do you carry wing nuts in your pocket?

Ironically, sometimes I do.

I personally wouldn't rely on a 22 for SD, but I know folks who do.

Nice reply That one made me laugh.

Glad I could help!

If you can't have fun while offering opinions, sharing your own thoughts and having some good debate, then you should probably re-evaluate your well-being, ha!

Hum... evidently you think that size matters.

Seriously, when one uses modern high-performance ammunition, there is little if any real difference between the 9mm, the .40 S&W and the .45 ACP. None of them are nuclear weapons. Marginal hits with any of them will produce poor results. Nice center hits with the .45 ACP... or the .40 S&W will get the same results as the 9mm. However, when it comes to getting those nice center hits under the stress of a HD/SD incident, lots of folks do better with the 9mm. In very light weight pistols, control will be an issue the same as with the .40 S&W or .45 ACP. However, in decent service weight pistols, the 9mm is easier to control... and easier to use for getting hits.

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<><

9mm may not be my personal favorite, but I don't want to be shot by one either.

Anyone feel like doing a live test?

Go shoot your leg with a 9MM. Let us know how it turns out.

Chances are you said "HELL NO!!" Exactly, I wouldn't want to get shot with one either.

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Matt H.

I've got a standing invitation for anybody who thinks this caliber isn't effective or that caliber is the wonder-bullet to head down range and hold my target for me. Haven't had any takers yet.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

I've heard some 'experts' actually tell people a .38 Special is more effective than a 9mm.

9mm - 124gr JHP usually around 1150fps.

.38 Special - 125gr JHP usually 875fps



.

It's all about the mechanics and physics behind the bullet, itself.

Tumbles?

Passes straight through?

Amount of energy transfer to target?

Location of impact?

Etc. etc.

Any round has a level of lethality. It's all about what is comfortable for you and your SD weapon of choice.

True, but you can also get .38 Special ammo that sends a 158gr bullet out at about that speed, or faster. Some of them are HP. Some folks might think that's better than a 115 or 125, perhaps because of better penetration. But wait, isn't 9mm FMJ over penetrative? Or was that .45ACP FMJ? And is penetration good or bad? And should I carry the 10mm my son gave me? I CAN shoot it, although the gun itself is a little heavier than my improved Model 56. Also, a question about knockdown power: if one shot from my (whatever, but it has to start with a 4) knocks the guilty party backwards against a wall, and he doesn't actually fall down, but just kind of slithers down the wall, does that count? And how did that happen, anyway? Was the law of conservation of momentum repealed? Why was I not notified? I am sure that I was on the distribution list at one time.

The 9mmP was developed specifically so select individuals could make complete fools of themselves on the internet a hundred...and then some, years later

Why do folks pick and choose when they post .38 Special loads to make a point about 9mm? One isn't constrained to use watered-down .38 Special ammunition.

Works both ways.

S&W mod. 60, 2 inch- 1040 fps (379 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66, 2.5 inch- 1059 fps (393 ft. lbs.)
Ruger SP101, 3 inch- 1143 fps (458 ft. lbs.)
S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1162 fps (474 ft. lbs.)

Hmmm... and with a heavier bullet too.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=108

Some .38 Special Chronograph Tests

I have to confess that I admire .38 Special performance better than I do the 9mm.

I'm sure ya can make any apples to eggs comparsion , but with equal barrel lengths and equal bullet weights , the 9mm when loaded to original Euro-specs , (not the liability lawyer watered down US-spec stuff) , the 9mm will win every time over the .38 Special , std vel or +P.

Much of the inferiority comes from the fact that for many years , the 9mm Luger was only loaded with the sorta pointy FMJ. Most factory stock 9mm pistols available up till about the 80s were only reliable with the FMJ. The keen eye will notice it's not totally unlike the old standard 158gr LRN , also a notorious non-stopper.

Given modern design JHPs , the 9mm has become very effective. I often carry my Firestar loaded with std.pressure 124gr Nyclads. Some of my other full-size 9s (CZ-75 , Star 30) carry 124gr +P+ Hydra-Shoks.

So has the old .38 Special! My 2in Mod.37 or 3in 36 is usually loaded with Glasers , but my speedloaders carry Nyclads , Hydra-Shoks , Silvertips , or the good ol' 158gr LSWCHP.

Bullet placement is everything. Josef Stalin's personal executioner (yes, Stalin had one to take care of all those pesky folks that got in his way) killed thousands of victims with a .25 auto (a Walther). With 100% lethal hits on the first shot. His record was about 800 in one night.

Base-of-the-skull shot to the medulla? I seem to remember reading that somewhere, but never heard of the 800-killing night.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I'm kinda scared you know this guy and his kill/death ratio.

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Matt H.

Revisiting the post to see the latest commentary and a old incident came to mind, there was a killing in Bedford Pa, oh back around 1977 and the lead investigator was from our barracks, it turns out a married couple was in an argument and the wife decided to end the altercation with a shot to the chest of the man from a .25 ACP. Well it was a one shot stop and near instantaneous death, the tiny little bullet went through the heart, exited clean through, down the hall, through a closet door and was found lodged in clothing inside. I asked the Trooper, a .25 ACP did all that!??! Yup it did. Now does that mean the .25 ACP is the ultimate defensive caliber of choice, of course not. Once again shot placement and a rather unexpected performance from an anemic cartridge unfortunately did the job. Out here in real life I guess it really comes down to what you are comfortable with and are proficient with.

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Stay safe people!

But the .38 bullet is a teeny-weeny bit bigger in diameter, and bigger holes make all the difference.

I'm still using the old FBI +P in all my thirty-eights. Guess I'm just too old to change and do not care to engage in the never ending caliber wars.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

What he said. I use it too, and have no desire to change.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I punch holes in paper and the 9mm seems fine for that. My wife is learning to shoot and I believe she can handle a 9mm so it's just fine for me. If I need more I've got my .357.