Hoarding is not the answer and I wish it were. Hoarding means ammo is in stock so all I would have to do is show up at the store and buy it. Fact is its not showing up. An example was yesterdays delivery to my local Academy. They got 4 boxes of 22. Not 4 pallets,not even 4 cases but just 4 boxes of 22lr. Thats it. Of course more often than not no 22lr is delivered. So my question still stands. Where is it going because I and everyone else knows its not going to the retailers.

The "truth" is that cheap HV .22LR was getting more difficult to find well before Sandy Hook. Economy was/is bad and lots of folks shooting more .22LR than ever before in HUGE numbers.

Look at all the new "black rifle" .22s that have come on the market in the last few years. S&W 15-22, Colt Umarex M4, Sig522, Ruger SR-22, Mossberg Tactical, H&K 416, Omni M4, ISSC Mk 22, Remington VTR, and GSG makes a dozen different ones from AK to MP5. NONE of these were around just a few years ago, and they all come with high capacity mags. Anyone look at Ruger's .22 handgun lineup lately? Every possible configuration... rails... threaded barrels... aluminum... you name it, they got it! And how about all the centerfire pistol replicas there are nowadays? Used to be if you wanted to shoot .22s from a 1911 platform you got a conversion kit. No more... everyone is making a 1911 .22 or slapping their label on one...

The manufactures aren't making them because no one is buying them... they have been flying off the shelves in recent years.

There has been an EXPLOSION in rimfire suppressor sales. Folks have discovered how much fun it is to shoot all the threaded barreled guns listed above with a can hanging from the muzzle. What was taking 2-3mo to get a tax stamp is now taking over a year. Trust me on this... I've been waiting on a tax stamp since Feb.

The "truth" is that demand for .22LR has skyrocketed. Panic buying the last 12 months after Sandy Hook allowed folks to exploit an already tight market, but it is far more an issue of demand. Tight markets are always going to attract those who will exploit it for profit, that is nothing new.

When you can't afford to shoot this 1,000 rounds per month....



You shoot this....

The Academy here gets quite a lot of 22 in and in diff quantity as well as from different manufacturers. Trouble is, is most of the time, the same scalpers and other flippers are always first in line. The store manager and others tell me so. My question is: If they know who is in line and why? then they can nip that problem in the bud. You might not think they dont know who their real loyal customers are? they do. They can easily make it a store policy and not sell to them on a daily basis. Or another alternative that could easily be--is to stock the ammo at a later time (speaking only of the popular hard to come by) that way others will have their chance to get ammo at non scalped prices, and Walmart can easily do the same. Also in stocking at some other hour, would mostly stop flippers and other non loyal regulars, from doing that.

Someone can scream that that is capitalism at its best.....Bull..!!!! That is just their way of saying its OK, to be greedy.

You can buy anything you want, at inflated prices. That means that the ammo showing up at the big stores is being sold to friends of friends in the know and then resold at the shows or online for a huge profit.
Which in turn creates another shortage as more and more people seek it out.

Thanks for the informative post, Shawn.

I have my doubts about the reality of "Doomsday Preppers", but watch a couple episodes and you'll see where a lot of ammo and reloading components are going.

Like I said, I have my doubts about how real it is. Putting themselves on TV is contrary to they claim they're doing it for. I also wonder what these folks do for a living to have the time and money for there "prepping".

One guy kept talking about protecting his family in the event of martial law. Well, I got news for him, under martial law the govt can march right in, arrest him, and take it all. And it doesn't matter how big & bad his arsenal is, they'll always have something bigger.

How do you explain chain stores using bricks of .22 ammo as leader items for Black Friday sales? Tells me its out there in the supply chain. I went to Dick's on Thanksgiving night to stand in line with my wife and son. each of us purchased one brick of .22 ammo for 19.97. Store went through ten cases of ammo in less than 4 minutes. When the manager went down the side walk..there were more people in line to buy .22 ammo than the guns that were on sale! LOL

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The American dream is alive

There was plenty of 22LR ammo at the Dothan gun show… for $20.00 for a box of 50. They also had large pistol primers for $145.00 per 1000. That's it, I've gone to my last gun show. I'm done dealing with the lowest form of life on earth, I'll buy my ammo and reloading equipment from the old local guys around here, and I'll buy my guns from the folks I know and trust, some of whom are on this list.

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Pat Henson

Aw Phil,

You know these folks aren't going to let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory. Or their ability to blame some evil, anonymous "them"!

Well yeah...

We all know that flipping is going on, and I wouldn't be surprised if some ammo retailers are moving product off shelves and their regular web sites to get higher prices on Armslist type sites, but that's just a reaction to the underlying issue of a tight market where demand has outpaced production/supply. You could take all the .22 flippers out of the equation and there would still be millions of rimfire shooters showing up at Walmart to see bare shelves.

And, apparently, more of it!

The Dick's that just opened here-the guy I spoke with behind the counter who called Lever action rifles "Black Guns" told me the line of people waiting to buy ammo weaved around his area and ended outside in the sidewalk. Truth or not? I dont know since I wasnt one willing to go on that day and wait in line.

We have lots of ammo available here of all types at every LGS I visit. Except Walmart where I don't like to shop so I never look.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Saw on FB that Midway was running a sale on 9mm target shooting ammo for $14.99 / 50.

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Take your time, fast. J.Hughes

Well, for one thing, if your LGS is charging inflated prices, he's probably not selling as much.

The main reason, though, is that he doesn't get nearly the traffic of a Wal-Mart. You don't go into his shop at 1:00 AM for diapers then wander over to sporting goods to find them stocking the shelves with a new shipment of .22 lr.

Besides that, you can bet most of the ammo purchased by the big-box stores goes to locations where demand has traditionally be the highest.

Finally 9mm ball in my local WM: one ammo can of 1200 rounds Turkish ball (MKE) @ $457. Dividing by 24, about $20.70 per box of 50.

Also 2 cans of .223 ball (also Turkish MKE) 720 rds per can at $455. Figure .63 a round. FWIW.

Bah. Things have gotten great over the past 6 months. The Cal Ranch next to my house went from bare shelves to having so much stuff that has caught up on their orders their gun counter is PACKED and so are the Shelves. Now if I could just figure out the .22LR panic people. I don't know what the **** is wrong with them.

However the days of 100 round value packs of 9mm at Wally world for $15 is LONG gone.

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Matt H.

I have a friend who works at Federal. He claims the Feds came in and said they want ALL of your production of certain calibers: I believe it was 9mm, .40, 45, .223 and .308. They did the same thing to Winchester and Remington (and others?). The big three finally got together and said enough is enough and said no more to the feds and started producing for LEO and the general public. He figures Dept of HS has enough ammo to last 20 years.

I had heard something like this before and figured it was nothing but rumor, but he claims in no uncertain terms that the above is true.

Well, if some un-named person said it, and someone heard it, and someone else read it on the internet, well, hail, that's good enough for me. It's gotta be true. It IS a conspiracy after all.

Yup... uh-huh... yew betcha'... 'shore!

LMAO! Posted on the internet by the guy whose friend once knew the cousin of the wife of the guy who once did Steve Hornady's landscaping. Who can argue with that?

FWIW: I think I saw earlier in this thread the DHS purchase was .40 S&W??? That is the one CF handgun round I see on the shelves on every visit to the local Wally World and Academy.

LMAO! Posted on the internet by the guy whose friend once knew the cousin of the wife of the guy who once did Steve Hornady's landscaping. Who can argue with that?

FWIW: I think I saw earlier in this thread the DHS purchase was .40 S&W??? That is the one CF handgun round I see on the shelves on every visit to the local Wally World and Academy.

In these parts 22lr is a bit scarce yet, but everything else is pretty easy to find.

The local Wally Worlds have gotten secretive about what's on their ammo deliveries and have varied the times they put the ammo on the shelf, so I've abandoned them as a source. They generally only have 12GA target ammo and magnum calibers.

I feel kinda bad going to the range for hours with my own ammo, picking up my brass, and paying only the small fee.

It's like Abe Lincoln once said:

"Not everything you read on The Internet is true!"

Seriously though, the ammo shortage has lasted for a year now, and there is not one shred of credible evidence of a government conspiracy of any kind to deprive the American public of ammo. And why .22 ammo? You'd think if "they" wanted to disarm the public, .22 ammo would be all over the place, and 12 gauge, 38 special, 9 mm, 10 mm, 223, 308, etc would be unobtainable.

Unfounded, nutty conspiracy theories and speculations make all gun owners look like gullible, paranoid fools. I resent that.

Bought 2k rounds of 22 last week, been buying it all year at Walmart using the app, probably over 10k rounds this year just of 22.

Over 5k rounds of center fire, 9mm and 45....just this year, again using the Walmart app.

Walmart must put me ahead of the DHS I guess

Hello, here in The Netherlands no problem with the ammo,this weekend i bought two bricks for *47.50 CCI standard

So are you a hoarder or reselling camping price gouger?

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Matt H.

You know some people actually went out and found ammo while others sat on their back side, called people names like you are doing now. So why are you dumping on a fellow shooter? Is it because he has been fortunate enough to get ammo and you weren't?

There has been a lot of people looking down on others, calling them names and casting aspersions on their character simply because they put the work in and secured ammo for themselves. You know what some people shoot more than a box or two a month of ammo.

Speaking frankly whose business is it anyway if he or anyone else is reselling the ammo they have bought or if they are building a stash to avoid experiencing this situation again. No one has any right to be calling them names.


Mods please lock this thread I started. Its become redundant.

Ah yes, a fable as old as Aesop hisself:

Update: I stopped by my local academy last night and they had EVERYTHING.
I wasn't interested in any CF except maybe some .380, which was way too high.

Heads up:

Save your .22 brass!!

The shortage has prompted several manufacturers to develop .22 reloading equipment. This equipment should be up and running by January.



The preceding announcement is an internet rumor. Feel free to share with your cousin who works at Winchester Ammunition.

.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

You had me going for a minute.

Who was that comedian? - Judy Tenuta - who sarcastically said:

"HEY - IT COULD HAPPEN!"

"secured" You make it sound like there is impeding disaster? It becomes everyone's business when you brag about it on a public forum. Also, I shoot around 3-4k of ammo a year.

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Matt H.

Hoarding is the answer and I wish it wasn't, however it's defined. Its the reality of not depending on retailers for supply when needed (or should I say wanted.)

It has changed everything in the past year. Most of us who have shot all our lives were prepared for the center fire. Thus, after the panic, center fire has stabilized and is available. .22 lr is a different story... Yeah, the lowely .22. A couple of boxes around the house was enough for many. Now its different. Thousands of rounds are prefered. We are our own warehouse now for what was once a readily available commodity.

Just hope this lesson has sunk in on some more vital commodities as well.

Wait till a real shortage of something really needed happens for a long term.

Then you WILL need the ammunition.

I would think people would stock up on more useful ammo for SHTF. 9mm, .40, .45, .223. I don't think a .22 will be super effective against a zombie, Russian tank, or whatever the he hell people freak out about. Besides. You'll be dead before you can get through 10k of ammo if SHTF regardless of caliber.

I need to ask my wife where she hid my aluminum foil hat.

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Matt H.

Large companies (as well as the government) sees the published disposable income that every citizen is supposed to have. And they all want it.

But how to get it out of the clutches of the working man?

Well, raise prices, of course, and do it in large steps.

Some years ago, the oil companies discovered they could not raise gas prices more than a few cents per gallon without raising the suspicions of American citizens which would prompt government investigations.

So, oil companies created a phony shortage then cranked up the prices (after a suitable period of stockpiling gas).

They have done this more than once using any excuse from wars to storms.

So when the government ordered tons of ammo to stockpile for the "upcoming revolution" they know they are pushing the citizens into, the ammo companies took advantage of the situation to turn all resources to filling the government orders (manufacturing 22 ammo was put on hold). After satisfying the government they filled their own warehouses in preparation of price increases.

Hoarders and scalpers went ballistic (pun intended) and bought everything they could get their hands on at any price, adding to the shortage and panic.
Rumors also add to the confusion. Such as the last American smelter closing their doors. Lead from China is much cheaper, not more expensive!

Now, a year later, ammo is coming back on the market. The very best deal I have found is a 50% mark-up over last year's prices. Some prices are 200% to 300% higher.

It is Greed! Pure and simple, Greed!
Shortly, shelves will be full at the new prices.


Every word I speak is the truth.

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A real sucker for the J-frames

If you are referring to the oil shortages of the 1970's, there was no conspiracy by the oil companies. OPEC decided to cut production to increase demand.

Once again, no grassy knoll, and NO CONSPIRACY!!! Give it up. already.

The shelves in the Walmart stores around here are full once again, except for 22. Prices are higher (10-30%) than a year go and I believe the last price hike is the new "normal". Unfortunately, "normal" is going to be a much shorter cycle from now on (IMHO)!

Same at our Cabelas with their prices typically about 10% more than Walmart.

As I and others have said in many threads, buy what you can and buy when you see a decent price because it is not going to get cheaper. Ammo is now like gas FINALLY crossing 50 cents a gallon, jumping to 52 cents in 73ish; we knew it would never retreat!!!

100 rd Federal 115gr 9mm is 23.97 + tax at WMT. In my part of TX that's <26 cents per round. Just 3-4 mos ago it was $21.37/100 rd box at WMT.

It's still higher than 2012 but not double, at least not in the DFW area. However, the shelves are once again full.

NOT so. I was stationed on an Oiler in the Navy in Alameda in the 1970s during this "oil crisis". I can tell you with certainty that out in SF Bay during this time, I saw at least 8 commercial tankers (fully loaded and low in the water) anchored out in the bay. They were NOT, and did NOT off-load their oil. They stayed at anchor during this entire so called "crisis".

OK... and...???

The supply was sitting right in the middle of SF Bay, and the demand was in the long lines I stood in waiting to pump gas. IOW, there were bigger players at work, more than just a simple "supply and demand" explanation can account for.

Seems to me it's back door gun control. As ammo supply dries up so will demand for guns. I don't mean for this to be a political statement but I believe there is truth to the notion that the government can and does control ammo purchases in the civilian market by various means. If you follow the supply chain from manufacturer to end sellers, it does not make sense that production is at an all-time high while there is so little product on the store shelves. The LGS and big-box stores point their figures at the distributors, which in turn point theirs at the ammo makers, which in turn say they're working 24/7 to meet demand.
Lots of questions, very few answers. Until my theory is disproven, I'll stick with it. Just my 2 cents.

WMs here are still much more miss than hit. I go in at least 5 times a week since they are on my walking route. True more 9mm is arriving but--not 22. I go by anyway figuring all the goodies are already sold. Usually when I go with a negative feeling of what to expect, I find bulk boxes of what I want. Go figure.

If you've got a way to skip refining and distribution you're sitting on a figurative "black gold" mine.

Do you know if that oil was some of the first Alaskan oil? Was production ramped to handle the new supply? What time of year was it? Was this in the middle of the switch from leaded gasoline? Was there refining capacity offline? There are so many things to consider. Also, 8 tankers wasn't the difference in the problem. Someone else said it. Most cars are, on average, less than half full. If everyone goes out and starts running full tanks and then tries to KEEP them full, that puts a short term doubling of demand into the system and then maintains a "daily" stress on the supply chain. Don't get me wrong, I do agree that there are back room things that impact all of us but I do not believe these nitwits in DC can actually orchestrate anything long term.

So back to ammo. I know I've increased my on hand supply in multiple ways (new calibers, more of everything) and everyone I know has done the same. An incredible stress was placed on the supply chain AND there were/are political forces but ... I'll save my tin foil cap for something else!

Wow. You really think that I can recall in detail ALL of the facts and ALL of the reasoning behind as "ship"-load of oilers anchored in the middle of SF Bay for a few weeks roughly 50-years ago...

In the mean time, could I interest you in some prime real estate in south Florida? It is dry at least 7-months out of the year and would be great for development for a retirement home... All for under a cool million $$$ and worth all kinds of profit for the future... Honest...

OP requested this thread closed

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP