The people who make it said they were running at full capacity.

Yet the big retailers were not getting any shipments and what little showed up in their stores were just boxes of this or that caliber if they were lucky.

Yet you could find it online on gunbroker and other websites in whatever quantity you wanted but at significantly higher prices.

So where did the ammo go? You and I know it wasn't on the shelf.

Everybody blamed those showing up on delivery day as the ones causing this shortage yet if you were there like I was you knew there was nothing to buy.
more often then not.

You were lucky to be able to buy even a single box of ammo.

Buying by the case was only possible on the websites that popped up overnight and on gunbroker. Nothing from Midway or the other big online sites as we were hit with the no backorder allowed tag.


So where did the ammo go when it left the plant?

As I started looking I noticed new sites coming online in January. Sites used by brick and motor shops to sell their ammo on gunbroker at exorbitant prices.

New independent sites coming online just to take advantage of the situation.

The one thing these folks had in common was a constant supply of ammo yet you and I were finding little if any ammo on the big retailers shelves.


How did they get the ammo and the likes of Academy,
and WalMart didn't.

Lots of factors here:

1) The Dept. of Homeland Security alone ordered 1.2 BILLION rounds of .40 S&W which in essence ties up Federals and Winchester's production lines for commercial ammo.

2) Hoarding by us.

3) A record number of new gun owners who figured it's now or never because of new gun laws and pending legislation.

4) Some say that the big chain stores have plenty of ammo but are releasing it slowly and purposefully to create a demand which in essence keeps the demand up and the prices high.

5) Some say that since all lead harvesting and smelting here in the US has come to a halt (new Gov't EPA Regs.) lead has been hard to get.

If you roll all these factors up it creates the scenario we have seen over the last few years and is still going on.

I agree with chief38 , however this was not a gradual problem it seemed to happen overnight. It seems fishy but the big retailers would not be able to keep it quiet this long if they knew something We don't. The complaints would be coming from them too.

i don't think it's a secret - we all know what's going on here but we are not supposed to talk politics on the Forum so I'd better stop here.

Got to say that i'm finding most ammo pretty easy these days. 22LR are still touch and go, and .380's are hard to find. However, most other ammo is back. Maybe not in great quantities, but it's there. I don't make special trips or ammo runs...If i'm in the store, i'll just wander over to check the stock. Sometimes, it's just your day.

There is little ammo to find at walmart here in NY. The NY safe act which will require background checks on all ammo purchases. Also the fact that we can't buy ammo online anymore and the NY State police can pay us a visit if we buy TOO much ammo and the amount of ammo which is too much is not defined in the statute makes NY'ers a bit nervous.

I have not seen any 22 ammo except 22 short at our walmart in about a year.

And where is 9mm ammunition? I'm not talking about the gee-whiz HPs and boutique loads. I haven't seen simple 9mm hardball since this panic began. Also hard to understand: some foreign mfgs have tried to step in and furnish some loads, i.e. 12 gauge from Spain and .357 from Eastern Europe. Why is there no foreign mfg 9mm ball?

The local Dunham's has plenty of everything except 22 lr and their weekly shipment of same is taking a whole day to sell out. I got four 50 ct boxes of thunderbolts for 2.19 each on Wednesday afternoon.

One clerk had the idea that a lot of ammo is exported through unofficial channels. More likely South than North, I think.

dont answer the door

good question on where has the ammo been for almost a year now. i saw the first box in 11 months of .38 in walmart the other night and bought it. the feds buy a lot of ammo every year for qualifications, so even if they bought more this last year it wasnt 1.2 billion rounds more. people with connections to distributors getting the ammo and selling it online before it ever got to the store added to the shortage perhaps. i think its a combination of many factors hitting at once. kind of like a perfect storm.

The Homeland Security contract had little, if anything to do with the situation. Like all of the government agencies, their contracting methods seem like a foreign language to ordinary folks. Basically, they want a contract that will guarantee a fixed price for a certain time period or a certain number of whatever they are buying. Sometimes, the contracts are indefinite time/quantity. Often, they are written with enough quantity that other agencies can piggy-back to avoid the lengthy and often frustrating process of doing a new Request for Proposal (RFP).

Just because a government contract is for a certain number of rounds over a certain number of years, does NOT mean that they are buying it all NOW, or that they will ever buy all that is allowed. The bottom line is that actual DHS ammo purchases are down from 2010. 148 Million rounds in 2010, down to 103 Million rounds in 2012.

DHS is the umbrella agency for several large LE agencies which dwarf the size of FBI, DEA etc. They have perhaps 100,000 armed people that all have to have duty ammo and practice ammo for quarterly qualifications.

The numbers translate to about 1,030 rounds per officer per year. Since many agencies issue new duty ammo at each qualification, and assuming each officer carries 46 rounds of ammo, that means 184 rounds are used for duty in a year, leaving 846 rounds for four qualifications and the practice sessions supporting those qualification sessions. That translates to about 211 rounds per quarter used for practice and qualification. That does not sound like much to me.

In addition, officials at Federal, Winchester, Remington and Steve Hornady himself have all made publicly released statements that the DHS contracts have little impact on the total numbers of rounds made and sold, and that there is no conspiracy within the government to buy huge amounts of ammo so as to stockpile it to either deprive us or to keep it for use against us.

Never underestimate the tremendous power that even a relatively small percentage of the American public acting in unison has upon the economy. People who thought they were well stocked with two boxes of each caliber now feel inadequately stocked with a case of each caliber. That is really the source of it. Steve Hornady's quote probably sums it up best.

See this article, which has the direct quotes from the Big Three ammo makers and Steve Hornady:

Is The Obama Administration The Cause Of Gun Ammunition Shortages? - Forbes

NOTE: I fully expect that some will simply believe that all of the ammo makers were threatened with IRS audits, extorted by black bag secret agent types, or otherwise "told" by someone to speak up in favor of the government, or else. Until proven untrustworthy, I believe Steve Hornady especially. I do not believe there is a Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse hidden away with stockpiles of ammo just sitting there for "disarmament day." LOL

Who is John Galt?

Yes .22 and 9mm are still hard to find..And when you find .22 Ammo it is just as much money as 9mm..I hardly shoot .22 and don't own a 9mm...just wish I could find some brass... I like reloading when its cold out side .

I am convinced this is a "perfect storm," with our own panic being the salient factor.

The largest gun store in Maine informed me during a recent visit that they are still able to wholesale order and receive ammunition as before the panic. It simply leaves the shelves quickly.

I travel a good deal in my work, and have stopped at many Super Wall Marts in several states out of curiosity. They are always pretty bare except for less commonly used rifle calibers and birdshot. My local store here in Maine had three 250-round boxes of 9mm ball recently. I bought one, and the clerk was surprised that I didn't want all three. (I did call a buddy and asked him if he wanted me to buy some for him, and I suspect that many of us are doing this sort of thing for our friends and families. He declined, BTW). Another WM clerk on a different day said the ammo got unloaded each night, but they never knew what was going to be on board. The store opens early and the popular stuff goes quickly.

Don't forget that we are still involved in two wars, driving up the cost and demand for copper, brass and lead.

My general sense is that supplies on most dealers' shelves are slowly building, and that things will improve. Just look at how many used and new black guns are appearing for sale now at pre-panic prices.

There seems to be a lot of shooters looking for black helicopters and wearing tin foil hats these days.

We are our own worst enemy. I'd bet members on this forum have as much ammo stocked up as the Home Security Agency ordered. I started stocking up on ammo, powder, and primers six years ago.

A former neighbor was a Texaco regional manager during the late 1970's and 1980's. He made the statement that 70% of the cars on the road had less than 1/4 of a tank of gasoline in them. A supply crisis in gasoline is instantly created when all those cars drive around with full tanks of gasoline when the American public hears the dreaded words "gas shortage".

The shooting public has done the same thing to itself with ammo, reloading equipment, and ammunition components.

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S&WHF 366

what I find hard to understand is why you can't get ammo at Wal-Mart, or most any other store for that matter, but the dealer down the road who is now turning his store it to an internet sales only, has every kind of ammo, piled 4 foot high, from 22's to 50bmg's and will only sell at the inflated prices that people are willing to pay on the net. it seems to me he has no problem getting all the ammo he wants.

His shelves are stocked because he is selling high. Larger retaiers are the first ones tried and they sell out faster because their prices are lower.

At least in my area, the gun show dealers seem to have an abundance of everything, but at high prices. So does the local bulk ammo store (we have one). Academy seems to have full shelves except for .22. I haven't visited the local Cabella's, BPS, or Gander Mountain recently, so I do not know about them. Wal-Mart seldom has anything out except shotshells.

This again? !?! My area has just about everything. I can buy 223, 9mm, 45.....etc etc etc in bulk or by the box. Walmart does not sell guns or ammo in my area so I don't count them. The closest Bass Pro, Academy or Cabelas is at least 1.5 hours away so I don't count them either. All my local ammo buying is "mom & pop" LGS.

So far I see better deals online. I can buy 2180 rounds of 5.45x39 for $360. That's 16 cents a round. 500 rounds of 7.62x39 for $120 or $4.79/box of 20


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I see what you are saying but he is going through the ammo as fast as it's coming in. ups trucks coming and going 2 times a day. semi truck loads coming in weekly. I think people are buying it because they can get it no mater the cost. plus they offer free shipping on all ammo sells.

The demand for ammo in the private sector is higher than it has ever been.We all know a few people who have had no interest in the sport who have been buying guns and ammo.Add in all the dormant owners who figure they better stock up while they can and here we are.

Every time a Democrat gets elected to the Office of President of the United States, people ("conservative" people) buy up all the AR-15s they can find, "before the gubmint takes 'em away". People who have never owned a firearm, go out and get one or two because they're afraid that they "won't be able to get 'em anymore". These same people buy up all the ammunition they can find, as well.

It is not rational, but it happens every time.
This last time, the craze has just lasted longer than anyone expected. It's still a problem, but not like it was in say, March. The problem with .22LR is that it will continue to be scarce now, because the crazies are playing up the smelter shutdown. This will continue to feed the frenzy, and now is driving up the cost of shotshells.

I would consider myself a "Conservative", and I just have to say that we are our own worst enemy, when it comes to this artificial "ammo shortage". Fear is a powerful thing, weather it has any foundation in fact, or not.

I dunno how old most of you are, but I'm 67, and I've seen these shortages before. The mere hint of a shortage, and folks rush out and buy whatever it is, creating a real shortage. It happened in the 70's with gasoline, toilet paper, chocolate, coffee, sugar, and primers. This time around, I think folks are scared of what the current regime is going to do, and I can't say I blame them.

The current situation will probably not get much better soon, so buy what you need when you can find it, and hope for the best.

I have been an NRA Instructor in Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun for many years. I do it for fun and certainly not for profit. I have been inundated in the past year, by people who want to buy a pistol and get training. This past year has been decidedly different than the past twenty, in that respect.

One

Hundred

Million

That's the number of firearm owners in the United States. If that many folks get interested in anything there will be a disturbance in The Force.

And I've been thinking about the 22 thing. True or not, the advice most folks receive when they buy their first gun is "get a 22, then when you can handle a larger caliber blah, blah, blah". And since the 22 platform is usually several hundreds of dollars cheaper than the same in a center fire, they go fast. As does the ammo to shoot in them.

Boy! Isn't this the truth!

On the plus side, I am finding centerfire rifle ammo to be in line or a bit cheaper than it was ~30yr ago. I found the price sticker on a couple of boxes of ammo I bought back in ~1979, and thought I would compare (below):

Remington 8mm Mauser 20rd

• In ~1979 it cost me $11.70 (or $39.68 in 2013 dollars)
  
• In 2013 it now costs $33.99 at BPS Now cheaper

Remington .222 50g PSP 20rd

• In ~1979 it cost me $9.65 (or $32.73 in 2013 dollars)
  
• In 2013 it now costs $22.99 at BPS Now cheaper

And Rimfire Ammo
CCI .22LR Mini-Mag 100rd

• In ~1979 it cost me $2.88 (or $9.77 in 2013 dollars)
• In 2013 it now costs $8.49 at BPS (when in stock) Now cheaper

I do want to say that my original date of purchase could be a couple of years earlier or later than 1979, but the jest of my point is that it appears that ammunition is Now cheaper than it was ~34yr ago, or at least equal to what it was back then if I am off on when I first purchased the price marked ammo.

Your comparisons are of no value. Out of context and time.

Lets look at 2012 prices.

From the same caliber,brand ,bullet,same dealer and same time period.

9mm prices

2012-18 cents a round
2013- 34 cents a round

A near doubling in price.

Whats even worse is the cheap stuff from foreign sources are within a dollar of the American made ammo.

Proof that former communists can get pretty good at capitalism pretty quick.

I would beg to differ with you regarding context AND of value. My 1979 prices are inflation adjusted values from their 1979 dollar value to their worth in 2013.

YOUR quoting of prices in 2012 dollars AND in 2013 dollar prices ARE NOT adjusted for inflation, thus it is your 2012 value that is of no value. A 2012 $1.00 is worth $1.02 in 2013.

Look last November I could buy 9mm for 18 cents a round. Now I'm lucky to find it @34 cents a round. The cost of shooting for me has basically doubled.

And just what does that have to do with inflation adjusted prices over time? Be it one year OR +34yr? Do your math already. No one has said that a particular "single" year had or did not have an outrageous rate of inflation. All I offered was that averaged over ~34yr all this inflation looked much more tame than you give it credit for. These are the years that I lived though, buying ammunition and just living, NOT some textbook analogy.

Come look into MY ammo box and see what I paid for ammunition back in 1979. Do I actually need to post an image of my ammo with the price tabs on them? Give me a break already...

Re: Prices/inflation 2012-2013. Granted comparing prices from 1979 to 2013 will require significant adjustment for inflation. Average inflation for 2012 was 2.1%. Up through October average inflation for 2013 is 1.51%. That of course reflects a broad average of prices. Specific items will be higher or lower. In the case at hand, there is no doubt that the increases over the last 22 months (1/2012-10/2013) of prices for 9mm or any other ammunition has greatly exceeded the average inflation rate for that time period. The observation made that "the cost of shooting for me has basically doubled." is an accurate statement. Discounting it by referencing a broader time frame does not change that reality.

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<><

The current price of ammo and components compared with a year ago has nothing to do with inflation. The price of the two principle metal components of ammunition, lead and copper, have gone down in the last year, not up. The cost of producing ammo certainly hasn't gone up much more than inflation (labor and equipment). But when more shooters enter the market and some of them decide they need a 10 year supply of everything, demand outstrips supply and prices skyrocket. Just look on Gunbroker at the ammo auctions and you'll see plenty of ammo for sale - you just may not like the price.

So forget the conspiracy theories and remember what Pogo famously said - "We have met the enemy and they is us!".

I'm so tired of hearing all the ammo is being bought up as soon as it hits the shelf. NOT!!!

The ammo is never making it to the shelf so something else is going on here. CCI alone produces over 3 million rounds a day. Add in Remington, Winchester, Federal pluss all the foreign manufacturers I'm guessing anywhere between 12 to 15 Million rounds a day are being made. NONE OF IT IS HITTING THE SHELVES so please tell me where all that ammo is???

All I want to do is take my kids and grandchildren to the range and shoot a handful of 22's without taking out a second mortgage on the house. I've had enough of this already. I want my country back!

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I was at dunhams the other day and they had everything but 22's. asked when they will be getting them in and he said a truck was coming in today in about 2-3 hours, he also said that they go as soon as they come in, that people will be coming in soon to wait for the truck. I had to go but came back 5hrs. later and they did come in and was told they were gone with in 30mins.i guess you got to camp out at these places if you want 22s......

Thats the only way I've been able to get 22. So very little comes in that even when it does show up it disappears quickly even with a 1 or 2 box limit. Fact is the ammo is going somewhere other than my local gun shops or big retailers like walmart or Academy. It just isn't there.

Proof that you can lead a conspiracy theorist to water, but you can't....

Oh, never mind.... This site needs a "slap forehead" icon for threads such as this.

OK, how about this one: "You can always tell a conspiracy theorist; you just can't tell them much."

Wait, wait, ...they get better...!!!

Its going into hoarders' stockpiles.

When this first started nearly a year ago now, I was good to go with everything except 22lr. It just wasn't a priority. By February, when I found that I couldn't get it, it became one - coupled with the decision to shoot more .22 and save the more expensive centerfire.

I got the Wallyworld app and played the be there when it comes in game for the next three months... and was successful in getting a good stockpile and still be able to shoot once a week.

I saw the same people in line every time. Mostly retired gents who had the time to be there early and buy what came in.

By April I had managed to accumulate what I thought was a comfortable amount of .22lr to shoot through the spring and summer so I stopped playing the Walmart app thing.

About a week ago I decided it was time to replenish the .22 stockpile, since it was getting low. I quickly found out that if I wanted any .22 I would still have to do what I did months ago. What I have noticed is that the same people who were in line back then are still there now. They haven't stopped. They're not buying .223 and 9 mm anymore, but every box of .22 is being scarfed up. There's no way these codgers are going out and shooting that much. Some of them come in the store with walkers. But this has become a second occupation for them.

Its amazing. I don't see this ending as far as .22lr is concerned anytime soon. I'm 57 myself and have seen some panics and shortages... but nothing like this. 22lr is the new currency and medium of exchange.

While I agree with what is stated above and that it is happening there is more going on then that as my Walmart stores used to receive a lot more then 10 bricks at a time and that's usually all my local walmart is getting when they get it.

Yes!!! Obama is secretly storing all the 22lr in his FEMA camps! They are gonna arm all the UFOs from area 51 when Godzila emerges from the Hudson River!!

Common, it's simple. People see it, people buy it. If It's the most popular caliber in America then obviously every shooter is buying. And it's easy to buy a lot.

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Arik, now you've done it!!! The cat is out of the bag! You'd better be on the lookout for the black helicopters before they get you.

Gander Mountain in Houston managed to get sufficient quantity of .22 LR ammo buckets of bullets (1,400) that they offered them last Saturday for two hours at their old price of $69.99. A gun show FFL friend of mine had a couple dozen buckets all but handed to him by his supplier a few weeks earlier at even a better price.

Rumors abound that the large Academy warehouse in Katy, Texas, just west of Houston has pallets of ammo they are shipping to stores in quantities which are less than what they receive. (Not sure if we have the WWII "Jeep in a box" theory at work with this or not).

There is more ammo around Houston of recent in just about all calibers than we have seen in a while. A new Academy opened here four weeks ago on the western edge of Houston with just about a complete selection. They seem to be restocking most calibers, but not all.

Four years ago I was advised by a friend who is avid about his firearms that I should be buying and stockpiling as much ammo as I could. Although I limited myself to a few hundred rounds, I believe he did exactly what he advocated and in quantities that can only left to the imagination.

There are forces at play in all of this but I have a strong feeling they are probably not the ones which make for urban folklore. Much of this we have done to ourselves as we do every time there is a hint of a gasoline shortage or other daily commodity.

I agree with those who advocate that there is probably a strong dose of manipulated supply against increasing demand. That is what fuels profit opportunity and that right is what we say we will defend.

Market price is often defined by what someone will pay right now for the item available in front of them. Purchasers determine when the market price drops simply by not buying something they deem over valued or priced.

I do not like what has happened to either ammo prices or availability. With that said, I will accept the calamities resulting from an open market situation. We actually have a far better situation now than we would have if all the conspiracy theories were validated.

Although I haven't been shooting and therefore buying ammo for as long as some of the other contributors to this post, I think that what I have seen at the local gun shops adequately explains why ammo is/has been scarce.

Before I started reloading, fearful of not having enough 9mm for my next range trip, if I saw a box I bought it, regardless if I "needed" it or not. My thinking was, if everyone else is thinking the same way I am, I need to buy this box in case I don't find anymore. The scare caused a decrease in supply by causing an increase in demand. I do have to say though, around here in Louisville, Ky 9mm is pretty easy to come by now 22lr, not so much.

As for the 22lr shortage, I think its the same as above. I know plenty of shooters who get up at 7am to go to walmart and buy whatever 22lr they can find. I've seen no evidence what so ever that that it isn't hitting the shelves, everything i have seen indicates that it is hitting the shelves and very quickly going into carts or hands of frantic shoppers. This added to the decreased supply due to government orders I think adequately explains the situation.

Hoarding . . . no more, no less. Other than .22s, most calibers are in stock around here at pre-election/pre-Newtown prices. Some stores still have limits on 9mms, but the limit is raised and there's plenty on the shelves.

What happens if you go to Pennsylvania to buy ammo? Do you have to report it?

What happens if you reload? Does this include powder/primers?

Wal-Mart is one of Winchesters biggest customers. They buy in such a large bulk deal that they get good prices.

I used to be an FFL and even buying at my cost...I could get a better deal buying retail at Walmart. Then you have to add shipping, and then their markup.

A lot of the internet companies are really taking advantage of the high demand, and are making a lot of money...I hope that when the demand is over, the people will remember those places and not buy from them.

On a post I saw somewhere an individual stated he had acquired 54,000 rounds in the first 5 months of 2013. His intention was to continue to buy ammo. Reminds me of the gas shortage when an individual would start his car, drive to the gas station, waitin line for 30 minutes to get 2 gallons of gas...

__________________
Retired Marine Gunny

Trucks full of ammo are coming out of the factory gates, and driving to a remote area in Nebraska where there is a huge hole dug in the ground and they drive their trucks into it.

Try this website. galt.io