If one is to horde 22lr than there has to be 22lr available and its not. Very little is showing up at the retail level to purchase so how does one horde it.

Facts people ignore.

When we introduce people to the sport we start them off with 22lr.

When we take our children and grandchildren out to shoot we start them with 22lr.

Given the 22lr production numbers and running 24/7/365 it would take 2.2 years to provide 2 bricks of ammo to 25 million gun owners. That's less than a quarter of the 100 plus million gun owners. That is why there is no 22lr.

Now many complain about people showing up with family to purchase ammo. Well guess what. Companies are doing the same thing. They are setting up multiple web sites that appear to distributors as individual companies but they are not.

One should expect such occurrences when a product is in limited supply and when limits are in place from the top to the bottom. Yet people choose to ignore facts and place blame on their fellow gun owners.

The question would be what is meant by hoarding. By hoarding I would say keep a stockpile of 22lr that is larger than it was prior to the craze. If everyone before was keeping 2 boxes and now keeps 3 that's what is meant by the term as well as the people with 100 or a 1000 boxes. Nothing wrong with that but given that roughly 3.6 billlion rounds of 22lr are produced per year that comes out to 36 rounds per gun owner. So even if only 10% actively seek out 22lr that allows 360 per gun owner. Every box that's bought that would not have been purchased under equilibrium market conditions results in one less box available for everyone else and if every gun owner now keeps 1 extra brick, you have to have 100million more bricks of 22lr. So this is a real contributor to the issue I believe once everyone gets their extra brick, it should be fine if the rate of 22lr use is less than or equal to 22lr production.

The other factors mentioned are relatively the same before and after the craze, families shot 22lr before the craze, we introduced new shooters with 22lr before the craze, etc. But I think it's clear that the demand for ammo has increased, when you do this without increasing price the supply will become insufficient. So in all honesty if we were all to buy the same amount as before the craze most likely the issue would resolve itself but that's easier said than done. Add on to that finding it in stock in the store is stochastic. It's random whether a store will have it or not have it at a given time, always has been, but when you add people sitting out at 8 in the morning it makes the chances even lower when they buy 80% of it. It's an issue with the distribution of supply combined with demand, it may appear that there is less available, that less is making it to the store but with the absence of proof to the contrary, Occam's razer says that the behavior we see occurring is the cause.

Really, I would prefer federal and them just raise prices to put the market back into equilibrium than enforce de facto price ceilings. It may be unpleasant but that's how the market is supposed to work, this is the same phenomenon as seen with rent control apartment in NY, demand so exceeds supply that they are impossible to find. They are there, supply is unchanged but demand increases.

I just got 4950 rounds of .22 ammo-------550 rounds is .22 shorts.....for $200.00. Seems an older woman passed and her partner (the much more liberal but submissive of the couple) couldn't stand guns and ammo and had a few locals come clean the place out after the partners passing. They looted the place and what I got is just the dribblings along with some '06 ammo, .38-.357 ammo, and a small cargo ship worth of .243 Rem ammo. Anyhow.....been a long dry spell for me and buying.....guess this made up for it!! I'm back up to a decent amount of .22 ammo now.........My emergency stash number is 15,000 rounds.......guess I can go shoot my K22 Outdoorsman now!! Woopee!!!

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Go big or stay home

"The industry as a whole (all manufacturers combined) is setup to produce 4,200,000,000 (4.2 Billions) .22 LR annually...

That corresponds to 230,137 cartridge per State per day, which is 460 bricks of 500 .22lr per day per State. That means that if less than 50 people per day in each State are buying 10 bricks of .22, it is enough to dry up the entire supply as it is being manufactured.”

This Whole Ammo Shortage Thing by the Numbers

I was a hoarder before hoarding was cool.

Just ordered another two bricks of Aguila from Midway today. With coupon it was nearly free shipping.

and stored-away a lot of it, anticipating this shortage. I'm not sure why there's so little .22 for sale at a reasonable price, however some survivalist friends of mine tell me they have been buying up all they could for a long time. Seems as though they figure that when the government collapses and your paper money is worth nothing....bricks of .22 ammo will be a good medium of exchange. Makes sense to me....that may be where a lot of the production is going today.....

The thing is we have increased our numbers by over 20 million and have done so basically overnight as far as the manufactures are concerned. As far as prices go about the only people who have kept ammo at a reasonable price are retail firms like Academy, Walmart and most of the big retailers. Prices have gone through the roof everywhere else. OF course product is severely limited at places like Academy, Walmart and the others but you can get whatever you want elsewhere at ridiculous prices such as $250 for Remington buckets.

Those retail shops understand how their customers will react if they matched the ridiculous prices you find elsewhere. I doubt they are willing to chance their reactions.

As far as what is showing up I can tell you what I'm seeing at my local Academy. Academy has limits on purchases. Boxes of 300 rounds or more are limited to 1 per day. Anything less than 300 rounds you are allowed to purchase two boxes per day.

Lately we have been living large as on delivery day a full case of 5,000 has been showing up. So thats 2 boxes of 50 of what ever brand comes in. Definitely no way to build a stash that's for sure but with a little luck and catching some 22lr online its possible to put a small stash together.

As far as productions numbers Sierra Bullets Vice-President of Sales Matt Reams has put the daily production of 22lr based in industry info at 25-30 million rounds a day.

Nothing sells ammo better than a new gun. All those tactical .22s that have been the craze for the last few years, particularly during the panic, are stacking up like cord wood around here. I wouldn't be surprised to see availability start coming back before too long.

Ijust found Aguila subsonic .22 ammo,at Midway. It was $39.95 a brick, which is not too bad these days, I guess, but by the time you pay shipping it works out to about $6.00 a box, and I can reload .38s for that.

Hopefully, things will return to what passes for normal soon!

Use the $10 off code NRASHOW2.

I bought one subsonic brick and one HV brick of Aguila from Midway yesterday on one order. The code knocked out the shipping.

Thank you! I just ordered a brick. It still hurts, considering that a brick used to cost under $10, but at least I have some ammo now. Thanks again.

Probably the same time I can buy gas again for 19 cents a gallon.

Either the price of ammo will come down, or there will be some stellar buys out there on tactical 22s.

Ammo is not going down in price.

I'm afraid you're right. I have seen the same thing with primers, powder, ammo, brass, toilet paper, sugar, gasoline, etc. The shortage will gradually ease, but prices will never get back to pre-panic levels.

It's actually going up at some big box stores. Earlier today Cabela's was advertising Rem GB for $8/100 ... and they are now sold out.

The end of Feb this year I bought two bricks of Rem GB from Cabela's for $23.99. That's quite a jump for a big box retailer which have generally been keeping prices down below the stratosphere.

Just another reason to be a "hoarder".

I'm thinking of selling a large quanity of my 22LR cache to a LGS for twice what I paid for it and use the funds to purchase more ammo for my AKs.

I'll still have a sizable amount of 22LR set back to use, but as of late I find myself shooting less and less 22LR so I see this as an opportunity and take advantage of this insanity.

Eventually, the price of 22LR will reach a point that people will not be willing to pay it, prices will hopefully begin to decline, and perhaps then I'll rebuild my "hoard" of 22LR again.

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Molon Labe!

Yea it keeps going up. The 525 count boxes of Rem are at $23.99, the Federal auto match 325 count is $17.99 and the CCI 300 count 36grHP is $23.99 at my local Academy. Of course the CCI 300 count boxes is the first bulk CCI we've seen in the last year.

There was a Bass Pro in my area that has had steady supply of .22lr in stock every time I've gone for a while now and it was awesome... However my last 3 trips out there they haven't had any... It's depressing.

It's $7.99/100, but Cabela's price is still $23.99 on a 525 brick of Golden Bullets, at least last time they had them, which as far as I know was 4/28. They have raised a few prices lately, but that's not one of them. Their Federal 2100 rd can went from $99.99 to $124.99. I ordered one at the new higher price 3 days ago, and it went straight to backorder.

Federal makes a 2100 round can of 22r?

I remember that. Larry

I saw that... no thanks. Just picked up 3 100 round boxes of 40 gr. CCI Minimag at Walmart for $6.47 a box. No line this morning, I was the only one there.

Ran to Academy...no bulk boxes.

I was at a local gun show yesterday. HV bulk pack like Federal and Rem was priced $45-$70. I didn't see anyone buying. However, I did overhear more than one conversation muttering about prices. There is a lot of animosity and resentment out there.

22 LR ammo is real scarce up here in Northwestern Oregon, has been
for at least 1 1/2 years.

I am 63 years old and never seen a .22 lr ammo shortage like this.

The problem is not hoarding it is 'Math". You now have in the U.S.
millions and millions more .22 lr owners than even 2 or 3 years ago.

The .22 lr ammo production has not increased to meet that demand.

Also the 4 million rounds a day of .22 lr ammo that CCI makes does not
all go to the US. There are other countries in the world that I am sure
they export their ammo to.

Same supply more demand = shortage, high, really high prices...

The time where 22lr could be had for a few pennies is gone. There is simply a lack of production capacity when it comes to 22lr and that results in a shortage with resultant higher prices. You have ammo allocation from the manufactures and distributors. Distributors selling to the highest bidder which rasies cost to retailers and LGS's. You have to ask yourself why do all of these websites selling 22lr seem to be awash in 22lr yet supplies to your area are slim to none at your local providers.

Now if you think 22lr is in short supply try finding 22mag.

I just got back from the Tanner show in Denver, and, holy cow, I haven't seen that much 22lr on offer for ages.

Bulk packs and bricks galore, a wide variety of flavors and prices. The hardcore resellers at the show seem to be encountering a lot of price resistance (yay!).

LadyT you are spot on about 22WMR tho, none to be had. I usually see some for $25/50 but not today. I guess my 351pd has to stay put away for now.

Investing in ammo much better than putting money in the bank.

True. Its a win-win situation. Sell the ammo for a profit or shoot it. I don't see a losing side to such an endevour.

It's simple supply and demand, Econ 101. If Wal Mart raised their price to match that of the gougers selling at the gun shows we wouldn't see the old geezers lining up every morning to buy them out.
Now.. I'm seeing 17 HMR more often than 22 most places I go from $15 -17 per 100 ct box. Makes me think maybe I oughta get me one of those nice Savage bolt actions to do my plinking.
John

If I owned a store I would keep a database listing the amount, names & dates of purchase for .22 ammo. I would inform my customers that there is a 1 brick limit per month...which I could easily track with the database.
Easy to do yet no one I know of does it.

I would stop coming to your store, along with a lot of other shooters I know.

Seems like you have changed your view from what you posted in post #7.

And like indie_rocker said, folks would stop coming to your store. Suggesting any type of registration with gun owners is the perfect way to lose business.

In the gun business that is the fast lane to bankruptcy.

You kinda got that backwards. If geezers buying ammo at gun shows would quit paying the secondary market price of 22LR, the demand would ease up and the price would go down.

Demand determines price. <----- (That's a period)

No, he has it right... if retail prices were raised to create equilibrium in the market, there would be no secondary market. Demand does determine price, and right now it appears that demand is higher than the retail market can keep up with, so that retail price should go up to curb demand.

I'll buy .22lr all day long at $.06 or less per round, depending on brand, from Walmart and Cabela's. Raise that to $.10 per round, and my buying would slow down.

If I am reselling ammo that I bought for $29.00 a brick for $50, and you just raised my cost (retail)to $50, it is no longer worth my time or effort, thus taking resellers out of the market, decreasing demand.

You are not going to take resellers out of the market as not everyone has access to to a Walmart or similar sporting goods establishment.

We are talking US, and Walmart has it pretty well covered...

Watch the Growth of Walmart and Sam's Club Across America | FlowingData

Remember not every walmart carries ammo and there are a lot of blank spces out here in the SW and W.

I'm happy and lucky to have an Academy nearby that I have to drive by when traveling east and its close enough so a quick run to check out what they have isn't a problem. My local walmart is a mess though and seldom has ammo in any caliber so Academy is it. I got 2 boxes of CCI SV today which isn't much but hey it could have been worse.

Hello everyone, i was gettin a lil curious of the 22 lr ammo shortage so i checked out a website and only one website that i have posted guns and accessories for sale on before. For the u.s. search there was over 10,000 rounds of 22lr ammo on the first page of around 10 postings. And thats just 1 page. I agree what was said earlier. If people would stop paying $50 a brick it would all end. As long as they pay, the sellers will keep buying it for reselling. I personally see no need to pay even $35 for a brick of 22 lr let alone $30. I dont need to shoot my 22's that bad. In my opinion paying 10 cents and above a round is just rediculous. Especially when i can shoot 38 specials for 10 cents. Just my opinion.

Maybe so, but there are other stores other than Walmart. I lived out there in the SW desert for several years. Had to drive 45 minutes to civilization, any direction. For those folks, the internet is their friend. However, they are in the minority... many of us can spit and hit a Walmart no matter which direction we are facing. There are 3,313 Supercenters and another 499 discount stores across the country... these numbers do not include the neighborhood markets, Sam's Clubs, or the small footprint express stores that they are now trying.

Then don't buy it. No one is being forced to buy 22lr at any price point and all of the objections to current pricing are just wasted breath. Its a new world with a new paradigm and under that paradigm the price of ammo has gone up including 22lr, a caliber that has been under priced for some time.

Gander Mtn has 525rd Remington GB in stock right now. $24.99 + $5 shipping. Check out the 1522 ammo thread.

I dont buy it at that. I just pick it up at walmart when i see it.

You propose price-fixing to artificially reduce demand? And whom do you propose to set these artificial prices - the government?

Folks are already screaming about sellers making too much profit. Raise the primary market price and what... they'll give away the difference? No, they will pocket it.

Or is it okay if WalMart makes a ton of money but not the Little Guy? Your price will not go down and demand will not decrease, it just takes your money out of one dude's pocket and puts it into a different dude's pocket.

Uh, no thanks. I prefer to wait for the market to correct itself. And in the meantime, if Little Dude wants to spend his days gathering ammo and reselling it to the fools who pay the secondary market price, well, more power to him. These guys are simply proving that P.T. Barnum wasn't wrong.

By the way, there is no shortage in Ohio. The store I work in has had 50 round boxes throughout this whole ordeal. You may not find the price attractive, and believe you me, we don't either. There is a big difference between "no 22LR" and "No CHEAP 22LR." If it is indeed "for the children" $3 a box or $6 a box or $8 a box isn't going to make a Tinker's Damn whether little Johnny or Suzy learns to shoot. It's still cheaper than bowling and you don't have to change your shoes.

If you think prices are high now just wait till gas prices go up because of the middle east troubles. Add in the prospect of increased gas taxes from the feds and you will look back and wonder why you didn't stock up during his period of cheap ammo. Get it while its cheap.

Speaking of gas, between the time I left for a hospital visit yesterday afternoon, and came back an hour later, gas was up 20 cents a gallon.

Back to .22, I stopped at Academy. They had no new 22 shipment, but still had some 50 round boxes of CCI standard vel at $3.49 / 50. That is up from $2.99 the last time they had it a few weeks ago. My WM has had no ammo except .223 and shotgun in two weeks. Shelf is very bare.

You just proved my point... You state that you work at a store that has had .22lr available this whole time. The price is higher at your store, so you are not seeing as much demand for the product as the Walmart down the street for the same product. If Walmart, Academy, or whatever other big box stores were to raise their pricing so to the point where the last box on the shelf is being sold as the new shipment is being taken off the truck, it would eliminate the guys who chase down cheap ammo to resale it at the gunshow, as it would no longer be profitable for them.

It would also keep me from buying every box I see just because it is available and relatively cheap. Federal 550 value pack at $20, give me my limit please... same stuff at $40 each, you can keep them.

What you are asking for is illegal. Price fixing will get a company thrown into court on anti trust charges, a situation no company wants to experience. Then there is the customer backlash to deal with and that can destroy a business. You just have to accept the fact that the paradigm has changed due to demand and the lack of production capacity. The era of cheap 22 is over. It's gone. Accept it.

Did you read my post? Raising prices to create equilibrium between supply and demand is not illegal. Have you guys ever taken a basic economics class. By raising pricing, you can curb demand.

Are you saying that if I sell widgets, and I sell 2 of them today for $2 and tomorrow I raise my price to $4, that is illegal?



If Walmart can not keep ammo on the shelf, their price is too low. If someone can purchase ammo from a retail establishment and sell it on the secondary market for double the price or more, then the retail price is too low for the market at that time...