If , for some strange reason , you can't get a 2 bore...a 12 or 10 gauge might do, loaded with slugs or 000 buck.
Gary

There are no facts or cases which support anything that you have written above. Please point me to a link to something, anything, that backs up what you have proclaimed . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Fighting with small arms fire is just like buying real estate...LOCATION ,LOCATION, LOCATION . If you don't get in far enough to disrupt hydraulics or electrical you are in trouble. Hydraulics will work but takes longer, electrics is like turning off the switch. We have guys here shooting that are 6 to 6 and a half feet tall and weigh up to 290. If they are turned sideways you have a lot of "stuff" to get through to get to anything of importance. Penetration and placement are vital. As to a quick secessation of hostilities, Ken Hackathorn teaches to shoot them in the face!! Ken says no matter how big or bad they are they will stop to reassess. As for penetration in handguns remember...All things being equal, weight, design, and velocity, a smaller caliber will out penetrate a larger one. We have put 200 grain hard cast .357gas check through our bullet box that went 21 inches in media that exactly duplicates autopsies of shot game. That is greater than a 358 rifle does. That will get you in to something of value. For more info on penetration I invite you to visit B&M Rifles.

If I was worried I would get a 10mm.If it will take care of a bear it will take care of a human.

No, I won't. Your "logic" is not transparent, but non-existent. I challenge you to explain it, even granting you whichever justice department you meant.Thank you. I knew that I was right about your getting the cart before the horse, but I appreciate your confirming it.

You've read some good books, or even taken a good course or two, but you have let your impression of them overwhelm your common sense. Leastways, that's how I see it.

Wow. Who exactly are you p***ing off?

I don't want to jump on the ridicule bandwagon but the Governor shoots .410 defensive loads too. It's unlikely that you'll kill an attacker, rather give them an immediate reason to stop whatever they're doing...

There is no duty to protect your community in state or federal law.

But, let's do your duty as you see it.

You are in a Walmart parking lot on the way to see if .22's have come in.
In the lot you see a woman screaming on the hood of a car, holding on for dear life. The car is acting wildly. First going forward and stopping abruptly, then backward and so on. The woman continues to scream for help as she seems to hang on for dear life. The driver of the car looks like a madman to you. You are compelled by your sense of duty to assist the damsel in distress. You yell at the driver to stop the car. He tells you to go %*$#@ your self. You draw your .357 and fire 3 Super Dot Deep Penetrating, wide expansion rounds into the driver. He slumps over dead as the car rolls to a stop. You have done your duty. But wait. The woman gets off the hood and runs at you cursing, crying and then pounding on your chest saying, "You killed my boyfriend, the father of my child!"

The local patrol cop arrives you tell him your story (big mistake) and he tells you he has responded to the same couple 3 times in the last month in the same situation. The duty Sargent arrives and talks to the cop and the girlfriend. He takes possession of your gun and handcuffs you. You tell him you were just doing your duty.

That evening you are finally allowed to call your wife who can't understand that you just went to Walmart and were gone 10 hours. She calls an attorney who says he will be at the lockup at 11AM the next morning and requires a certified check for $10,000 as a retainer.

Also that night, your wife goes on Facebook to see how some of her old boyfriends from High School are doing and the patrol cop writes in his report that you fired at the driver because "I was doing my duty." That same evening the prosecutor begins examining your online posts on gun forums and their investigator finds a small arsenal of guns in your home which they confiscate. That night, Al Sharpton gets an email.

Your life as you have known it is over, but you did your Duty.

So, uh, what defensive round do YOU recommend to our OP?

Prosecutor, "Members of the jury, Mr. 686 is now going to explain to us what he means by OP." He will also explain why "gun nuts" use such obscure terminology. Mr. 686 please explain."

Shoot 'em in the cajones; they will go down. Then you can shoot them wherever you please.

You are in a Walmart parking you see a woman screaming on the hood of a car. You should go see if .22's have come in.

Nice guy.

[QUOTE=Mac!Gettothechoppa'!;138487167]What are the best calibers to stop some guy built like Arnold was at his prime or a fat assailant with a 50-to-54 inch plus waistline?

Best defense round for a fat guy that "round" is a dozen round jelly filled donuts. For the muscled up one run by a "round" mirror. I have never seen a guy who works out a lot fail to stop at a mirror for a few minutes of self admiration. While he turns this way and that way flexing and taking selfies get out of there.

Just saying.

OP means Original Poster. In other words they person who started the topic. No different then LOL or BBL, BRB.....etc. None are gun related terminology. You can be the "OP in a topic about cars, pot holes, why the grass is green, will Mars attack, who really framed Roger Rabbit. ..

No where in my permit does it say I have a duty to defend my neighbors or anyone outside my house. It's for self defense. Having said that, every situation is different and you shouldn't just look at it as a blanket statement

I think SpecRacer is trying to say "My vote is for Federal HST or Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator."

I guess he gets off track now & then, due to his advanced state of verbosity.

Might be showing my age, but I remember this well.

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John

FOR THE BEHEMOTH THAT THE OP FEARS, I LIKE THE .45 COLT REVOLVER, STUFFED WITH THE BUFFALO BORE, STANDARD PRESSURE, ANTI-PERSONNEL LOAD. IT FEATURES A 225GR, HARD CAST LEAD WADCUTTER BULLET, THAT WILL SMASH ITS WAY THROUGH SUPERMAN, OR ANYTHING ELSE WAKING IN NORTH AMERICA. BECAUSE ITS A STANDARD PRESSURE LOAD, RECOIL WILL BE EASY TO CONTROL FOR FOLLOW UP SHOTS, AND ITS LOW FLASH POWDER WILL HELP YOU MAINTAIN YOUR NIGHT VISION…

FOR "NORMAL" SIZED HUMANS I PREFER THE SPEER GOLD DOT LOAD, IN .45COLT. I LIKE BIG BULLETS, TRAVELING A MEDIUM SPEED FOR SD / HD. GENERALLY SPEAKING SPEER'S GOLD DOT LOAD IS MY "GO TO" AMMO IN ANY CALIBER, FOR PERSONAL PROTECTION…. Speer’s Gold Dot in 45 Colt

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Fat, muscle and even bone doesn't make anyone bullet proof. If you shoot the big guy in the belly you're not going to stop him or any one else that's determined. They may die of blood loss later but they will still have time to kill you unless you happen to hit the spine. Upper chest between the shirt pockets will put them through the breast plate and heart. Pick any round with 12" or greater penetration, learn where to aim and hit the right area of the target.

If necessary a CNS shot through the imaginary triangle from the bridge of the nose to the corners of the mouth will take down the biggest man promptly and permanently with any caliber from .22 lr up. Unless of course you're in movie land and the guy is wearing a hockey mask and swinging a machete.

Get quality ammo with a modern load and hollow point bullet, like Buffalo Bore, Speer, Wilson Combat, Barnes, just to name a few. Caliber is secondary.

Shot placement is always good but not always doable while under stress. Two in the chest and one in the head works fine, if not doable than stick with center mass.

Being extreme muscular or obese is not a factor. What's worse is people that are pumped full of drugs with a what seems to be an endless supply of adrenaline. They might need a few shots more.

And you really don't wanna fire a .454 inside your home. Unless you have to...

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Jorge

To the OP.

I keep reading references that under high stress situations, law enforcement officers using their firearm, make hits a little less than 20 percent of the time. Would anyone want to miss 4 out of 5 shots fired with a .454 Casull or .460 S&W, inside their home, within a densely populated neighborhood ?

I'd ask the same question to proponents of using shotguns with slugs or 00 buckshot.

A vast number, if not majority, of homes constructed in past 60 years are single story "ranch" style homes, with perhaps only 20-30 feet between side walls, 60-80 feet in back and perhaps 100 feet across the street. High powered rounds will easily penetrate interior walls, and most exterior walls, brick faced exterior walls notwithstanding. There is great potential for collateral damage with 4 out of 5 high powered rounds. With the layouts in ranch style homes, there is not much time to awaken and gather family members to a safe defensive room after you hear breaking glass or a door being jimmied open late at night. It may lead to a more confrontational situation, but a .38 with lead hollowpoints, a 9mm, a .40 or .45 hollowpoint or a Shottie with #4 buck may be more appropriate.

Does anyone have opinion on frangible rounds on the big toughies or fat guys ?

Yep: don't use them on big guys, little guys, tough guys, softies or anyone in between unless it's all that's available or you've decided it's worth heavily downgrading your self-defense capabilities in return for less risk of over-penetration.

Frangible rounds are like bird shot -- yeah, you can stop an attacker if you hit him in the face or neck, or if he's not even mildly determined to do you harm should it require work, but anyone else (drug-fueled, psychotic, snake-mean) you make a gory shallow wound that won't do the job of stopping the attack quickly or completely, if at all.

Trade-offs in all things; only you can decide what's right for you.

It has been fashionable to denigrate it because real world ballistics are not up to what the factory claimed, but I still like the good ole .458. Maybe it is on the light side for elephant with penetration issues from poorly designed bullets, but for lesser targets it will get the job done. Especially with some of the monolithic projectiles available now, along with some judicious handloading to realize the full potential of the cartridge. Two or three Arnolds or Haystack Calhouns lined up should be no challenge to such a set up. And of course, as others mentioned, good shot placement is key. For those who are confident in their ability to accurately place their shots, the .375 H & H with 300 gr solids still has it adherents. Sometimes it just makes sense to stick with the classics.

I am a big guy and wouldn't want to be shot with a staple gun. Not planning to break into any house either. But if you use a 460 for home defense then I don't want to live across the street.

Some of the replies have me "rolling"!

Seriously. If two to the chest don't stop the fat/buff guy....put the next two in his face!

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Stay protected my friends.

That'll do it...provided he holds still and isn't shooting back.

If he's got two in the chest I doubt he's moving too much.
Manchurian drill should do it.

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Stay protected my friends.

You raise a great point.

One of my "go-to" weapons is my Governor, loaded with .410 Winchester PDX1 and .45LC hollow points. Since I can't know whatever situation will present itself, I'm trying to hedge my bets. If the PDX1 doesn't stop the threat the hollow points probably will.

Pistols are secondary weapons and should be used for defense only because you don't have a rifle. We carry them for convenience, not effectiveness; in fact, they suck. If you expect a fight you can't avoid and are taking a pistol, you are not very smart. Of course, unless it is your duty to go to stuff where you know you may need a gun, you should avoid going to that stuff.

Go find Doctor Roberts' recommendations for duty ammo that mean the standard, buy some, test it in your platform, and drive on. Until you get to the 350 pound tub of goo level, penetration should be adequate. I have a couple pistols available almost all of the time, but the best answer I have is an AR. It is my old patrol rifle, and set up as such. It's a BCM, with Aimpoint H1 and a 1000 lumen Fury. Higher hit probability, less likelihood of "over penetration" (which is a vastly overstated problem in most circumstances, and not near as much of a problem as MISSING). Aim at the center of available mass - it might not be great, but they will not feel or work better with a nasty wound that is not as effective as we would like. The default aiming/target area is a box framed by the nipples on the sides and bottom, and the base on the next, more or less. A throat/neck shot is likely to be effective, but harder to hit. For a face (NOT HEAD) shot, the outer corners of the eyes and bottom the nostrils form a triangle. That's the spot.

Firearms are not death rays. A potentially (or even certainly) lethal wound may not stop your problem. Keep shooting until the problem is solved. As a matter of law, you cannot shoot someone too much as long as you can articulate the continuing threat.

BTW: Shotguns must be aimed. At closer ranges, the shot will be close enough together that it is entirely possible to miss. While my training in the academy was the slugs are the default and buck a specialized round for limited purposes, that was before the days of common use of patrol rifles. Do not go smaller than #1 buck (which according to the math has the greatest surface area and will thus do the most damage); I tend to have 000 loaded; when I had issued ammo, that was loaded. It was 00.

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NHI, 10-8.

For me, my pistols are my primary weapons. If I need an AR, I probably don't need to worry about over-penetration...my neighbors will be the ones trying to get my goodies

I prefer to have to worry about a few bbs/discs rather than 200 from a full 12 gauge 00 shotshell, for clean up.

My primary goal is to stop the threat but it doesn't necessarily mean I have to kill or wound. Knowing that I may only have a split second to act, I may still be willing to point my Governor at an intruder without firing - depending upon the situation. The gun is BIG and hopefully will dissuade an intruder/attacker just through intimidation.

In the spirit of the original question, Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator may still fit the bill.

In my CC class, the instructor showed the video of an officer being mortally wounded. The shooter is a very large male. The officer shot the perpetrator but the man was so obese the bullets didn't penetrate deep enough.

So your saying cost wise it's pretty much a wash between "reckless endangerment" legal fees and a nice funeral..............................LOL

Have you had a bad experience (or twelve) at some point, or are you just pontificating like a newly certified preacher with an online divinity degree, class of Tuesday, 2:45 pm?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

357 magnum in 125 grain JHP. not much walks around after that

thewelshm

If hit in the gut I could stop an RPG. And that's not a brag.


Seriously, that's why I want something a little more powerful than .38 plus p.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Bill Cosby, right???

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Now a skinny 125 lb runt has it's own set of ballistic criteria and will require completely different ammo.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

A fat guy or Swartz in his prime type are both shot from between the eyes to just below the sternum.

Do not shoot for the 54" waist, gut shot folks survive for up to several days.

If it is a 125" skinny one, well you better have practiced hitting small fast moving targets.

I'd say any 9mm, 357 mag or 45 ACP type with good self defense loads is the ticket.

If you opt for a shot gun get #4 buck shot, it'll do the job. Less likely to penetrate the neighbors dwelling. As a LEO I was present at the autopsy of a guy who took a load of #4 Buck from a 20 gauge shotgun up close to the chest. I could see that it was instantly terminal as reported.

There was a poacher in our area, he used 3" #4 buck out of season with a spotlight. The deer died quickly. He went to prison on something else. Was never caught poaching.

My experience in shooting investigations and post mortem photography has shown that in general,obese people are really no thicker in the chest area than people who are considered to be of normal size.

Any modern self defence load in any of the service type calibers will have no problem getting through if the shots are well placed in the thoracic area as they should be. This even applies to people who are heavily muscled in the chest area from working out,ie weight lifting and such.Once again it comes down to shot placement first,as always.

Whether that shot will cause immediate cessation of aggression is dependant on so many factors that it really comes down to the individual who is being shot,both their mental and physical state. The best reason I know for continuous realistic training with your weapon of choice.

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Blessed be the Lord,my Rock

I keep a Winchester Model 94 .44 Mag by my bed with nine rounds ready to go.

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USAF Retired/VN Vet

.357 Magnum, the original "best of all worlds" round

Like the 3 little bears, "9mm is much too weak............44 Magnum is much to powerful........357 is JUUUUST right!"

Hit in the right place, anything will work. Hit in the wrong place, nothing will work. Location x 3.

.357 Magnum, 158-gr, Federal, Hornady, Speer, any of the top brands. Goes through parka, sweater, shirt, wife-beater undershirt, fat guy, stops on the other side.

4" barrel revolver. 66, 27, 28, 19, 65, 586, 627, 686 etc.

So... your life is worth less depending on where you are?

I am begining to become a little concerned about how focused some of you are about shooting a fat guy. Think I'll take my Krispy Kremes and go home and read bear gun threads.

Would pelting a robber with Krispy Kreme doughnuts be considered assault with a deadly weapon ???
Is a permit required to carry a dozen KK's concealed.
I can see how a fat robber would forget all about robbing you when faced with doughnuts, I forget about whatever I'm doing when faced with them....an if they are hot....oh my Lord, we eating doughnuts right then and there. Even making love has to wait on hot Krispy Kremes!
Gary

Shot placement is more important. Forehead, the T made by the eyes to chin, and even knee caps. Practice is required.
Larger holes are better than small ones.

I've been described both ways at various times in my life and I load my HD gun with .45 ACP HydraShoks...oh, wait that wasn't the question, was it?

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I need ammo, not a ride.

Hey-Zimmerman was acquitted and was summarily shot in the face tonight. I guess justice just found home.

Why? The prosecution was without merit and the prosecutor should be disbarred for her lack of candor to the tribunal and efforts to conceal exculpatory evidence. She is, without a question, a disgrace.

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NHI, 10-8.

Last report I heard was that he was shot at from outside his car and only suffered cuts from broken glass.

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~ From the Land of Lobstah ~

If you were in his shoes would you accept the verdict? He has been proven a bully many times over subsequent to the outcome of the trial. Live by the gun, get shot in the face. Hey it can happen.