shotgun693
Member
Anyone one here try it? If you have how did you like it?
Israeli IMI 9 mm 115 JHP
- Thread starter shotgun693
- Start date
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I believe this is the exact same ammo Stephen Camp tested back in 2001. Here's what he has to say about it:
Hello. Today, I took a MkIII 9mm HP to the range to test IMI Samson 115 gr DiCut JHP ammunition for expansion and velocity. I noted that while I had velocity figures for Triton's 125 gr +P JHP, I did not out of the BHP, so I tested it for velocity only. Expansion tests were NOT conducted on it as I've shot enough animals with it to say that it does expand and gives between 12 and 14" in tissue so far as I can estimate from a number of javelina.
From the BHP w/factory bbl:
IMI Samson DiCut 115 gr JHP
Average Velocity ~ 1251 ft/sec (Based on 10 shots)
Extreme Spread ~ 36 ft/sec
Expansion testing was done by shooting into water-filled gallon milk jugs lined up in a row. The IMI bullets penetrated 3 jugs completely and were found lying right at 2" inside the 4th. Each jug measured right at 6" so this indicates approx. 20" penetration. Since bullets penetrate approximately 2.8 times as deeply in water as 10% ballistic gelatin, the bullet would penetrate about 7.14" in gelatin. I do NOT believe this figure. I think, based on previous testing of
similar ammunition, that this round will penetrate between 14 and 16" in ballistic gelatin and that the discrepancy is due to the bullet's having to go through 7 tough plastic layers before stopping. I have no way to correlate how much extra penetration that would have been. I've used rows of water-filled baggies in the past, but had none today.
I was not impressed with the IMI JHP. Expansion was partial and irregular. The 115 gr bullet had a recovered weight of 109.8 grains. One side, lengthwise, was barely deformed, but at a 45 degree angle downward, the opposite side was sheared back such that the expanded lead portion of the bullet was .51 X .47" and expansion due to "ribbons" of still-attached jacket was .57 X .70" with only one "ribbon" accounting for the larger number.
Accuracy was good and the ejected cases were relatively clean compared to some other commercial ammunition. Cases landed between 12 and 14' from my firing point and the gun had a Wolff 18.5lb recoil spring and shokbuff in it. This confirmed the 1251 ft/sec velocity reading as PMP 115 gr FMJ cases are tossed about 10' or less. It averages a bit over 1100 ft/sec from the same gun.
Wind was not as heavy here as in recent days, but was enough that I fired at 15 yards, standing with a two-hand hold. 8 shots stayed in the X-ring of an NRA 25 yard pistol target while two drifted out into the 10-ring, one at approx. 1 O'Clock and the other at 4 O'Clock.
So, what's it good for? That's a good question. It's decent enough in terms of accuracy and there were no malfunctions of any kind. The Hornady 115 gr XTP factory round expands at least as good as does this round and does so more evenly and at lower velocity. In terms of velocity, this round is
very close to Remington's 115 gr JHP +P, but I've had better expansion results from the Remington bullets. The Samson ammo is NOT marked +P or "Nato" anywhere on the box or headstamp. While there were no excessive pressure signs, I do suspect that it's loaded to +P pressures. I reckon I'll shoot it in practice for bullseye work and for the very good IMI cases for reloading. It can duplicate practice with the more expensive Plus P rounds available here from US makers who can make a bullet that will expand aggressively or "controlled."
Hello. Today, I took a MkIII 9mm HP to the range to test IMI Samson 115 gr DiCut JHP ammunition for expansion and velocity. I noted that while I had velocity figures for Triton's 125 gr +P JHP, I did not out of the BHP, so I tested it for velocity only. Expansion tests were NOT conducted on it as I've shot enough animals with it to say that it does expand and gives between 12 and 14" in tissue so far as I can estimate from a number of javelina.
From the BHP w/factory bbl:
IMI Samson DiCut 115 gr JHP
Average Velocity ~ 1251 ft/sec (Based on 10 shots)
Extreme Spread ~ 36 ft/sec
Expansion testing was done by shooting into water-filled gallon milk jugs lined up in a row. The IMI bullets penetrated 3 jugs completely and were found lying right at 2" inside the 4th. Each jug measured right at 6" so this indicates approx. 20" penetration. Since bullets penetrate approximately 2.8 times as deeply in water as 10% ballistic gelatin, the bullet would penetrate about 7.14" in gelatin. I do NOT believe this figure. I think, based on previous testing of
similar ammunition, that this round will penetrate between 14 and 16" in ballistic gelatin and that the discrepancy is due to the bullet's having to go through 7 tough plastic layers before stopping. I have no way to correlate how much extra penetration that would have been. I've used rows of water-filled baggies in the past, but had none today.
I was not impressed with the IMI JHP. Expansion was partial and irregular. The 115 gr bullet had a recovered weight of 109.8 grains. One side, lengthwise, was barely deformed, but at a 45 degree angle downward, the opposite side was sheared back such that the expanded lead portion of the bullet was .51 X .47" and expansion due to "ribbons" of still-attached jacket was .57 X .70" with only one "ribbon" accounting for the larger number.
Accuracy was good and the ejected cases were relatively clean compared to some other commercial ammunition. Cases landed between 12 and 14' from my firing point and the gun had a Wolff 18.5lb recoil spring and shokbuff in it. This confirmed the 1251 ft/sec velocity reading as PMP 115 gr FMJ cases are tossed about 10' or less. It averages a bit over 1100 ft/sec from the same gun.
Wind was not as heavy here as in recent days, but was enough that I fired at 15 yards, standing with a two-hand hold. 8 shots stayed in the X-ring of an NRA 25 yard pistol target while two drifted out into the 10-ring, one at approx. 1 O'Clock and the other at 4 O'Clock.
So, what's it good for? That's a good question. It's decent enough in terms of accuracy and there were no malfunctions of any kind. The Hornady 115 gr XTP factory round expands at least as good as does this round and does so more evenly and at lower velocity. In terms of velocity, this round is
very close to Remington's 115 gr JHP +P, but I've had better expansion results from the Remington bullets. The Samson ammo is NOT marked +P or "Nato" anywhere on the box or headstamp. While there were no excessive pressure signs, I do suspect that it's loaded to +P pressures. I reckon I'll shoot it in practice for bullseye work and for the very good IMI cases for reloading. It can duplicate practice with the more expensive Plus P rounds available here from US makers who can make a bullet that will expand aggressively or "controlled."
CTG_COLLECTOR
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I like IMI's quality in their 9mm stuff. I used to shoot a lot of the Black Tip and Maroon Tip FMJ Carbine ammo back in the 80's. I've read that a lot of people find IMI's new 115/124FMJ ammo to be very accurate though I have not tried it myself.
As for their Ex-Star JHP ammo, I've never tried any and I'd wouldn't recommend it as SD ammo primarily because we really don't know how it actually performs in real shootings. Though I'd also say the same thing about S&B's standard 115JHP, but it did perform most excellent on the street thug Travon Martin (expanded, fragmented and never exited his body even at near point-blank distance and stopped his attack immediately).
BTW, the new Independence brand 115JHP uses the same Ex-Star bullet and it is actually made in Israel my IMI.
As for their Ex-Star JHP ammo, I've never tried any and I'd wouldn't recommend it as SD ammo primarily because we really don't know how it actually performs in real shootings. Though I'd also say the same thing about S&B's standard 115JHP, but it did perform most excellent on the street thug Travon Martin (expanded, fragmented and never exited his body even at near point-blank distance and stopped his attack immediately).
BTW, the new Independence brand 115JHP uses the same Ex-Star bullet and it is actually made in Israel my IMI.
OP
shotgun693
Member
Thanks for the info
EX-STAR HP Ammunition
I BELIEVE THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE ASKING ABOUT. GOOD CLEAN AMMO. BUT IT IS HOT FOR MOST PEOPLE I KNOW. NO IT ISN'T HOT IF YOU'VE BEEN SHOOTING FACTORY AMMO FROM THE 70'S AND EARLY 80'S. BUT COMPARED TO THE BULK 9MM AMMO GENERIC AMMO MOST PEOPLE BUY TO PLINK WITH, IT'S HOT. I PERSONALLY WOULD ONLY USE IT IN A METAL PISTOL. OH YES, VERY ACCURATE AT 50YDS. JP
I BELIEVE THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE ASKING ABOUT. GOOD CLEAN AMMO. BUT IT IS HOT FOR MOST PEOPLE I KNOW. NO IT ISN'T HOT IF YOU'VE BEEN SHOOTING FACTORY AMMO FROM THE 70'S AND EARLY 80'S. BUT COMPARED TO THE BULK 9MM AMMO GENERIC AMMO MOST PEOPLE BUY TO PLINK WITH, IT'S HOT. I PERSONALLY WOULD ONLY USE IT IN A METAL PISTOL. OH YES, VERY ACCURATE AT 50YDS. JP
Ramikrav
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I was wondering what load Zimmerman used.
The IMI Di-Cut JHP is a decent round but I wish it were offered in a 124 personally. I haven't tested it in water jugs so I can't speak to that, but I have tested this load in ballistic gel (SimTest Media) and with BB calibration coming in at 3.61", I saw an average of 12.25" overall penetration from a 4 shot test. All 4 projectiles expanded as designed and closely resemble the old Black Talon in appearance, though without the black coating. Velocity from my Glock 19 and SD9VE is hovering around 1200, with a 10 shot average of 1194 at 10 feet from the muzzle. (5 shots each pistol, Pro Chrono digital) I also have not seen any signs of pressure on any spent casings and have not experienced any feed or ejection issues after putting 300 rounds of this down range. While I do not carry this load nor do I have any future plans to do so, but that is simply because I shy away from 115 grain defensive ammo in general and nothing against this load particularly. I like to achieve around 13.5-14.5" with my carry ammo along with full expansion and a permenent cavity stretching atleast 1" wide by 4" long or better. These are my personal requirements that I've come up with from a mixture of personal experience and countless hours of research regarding ballistics in firefights on the streets. It is also this knowledge which eventually led me to shy away from carrying .45 and went to the 9mm, as I just have not seen much real world benefit from the larger big bore so I feel the extra round capacity and ability for faster follow up shots with the 9mm platform is more of an advantage than a slightly larger expanded bullet. With today's ammo technology, the difference in wounding capabilities between the common service calibers (9mm,.40,.357,.45) is very minimal and there is little ballistic advantage from one caliber to the other from what I've seen in real world shootings, so long as appropriate ammunition is used. The IMI load has a lot of credentials over seas, but there isn't enough verifiable street data on this 9mm Di-Cut load in our country for me to consider it reliable enough for carry. The loads I can and often do recommend for the 9mm are Speer Gold Dot 124 grain, Federal HST 124, Winchester PDX1 124 for warm weather carry, and the 147 grain version of all the above for cold weather carry. Also Hornady Critical Duty 135 is proving to be an excellent all weather round, and the +P version of any of the above mentioned ammo is acceptable but be advised that although expansion may be slightly greater, penetration could actually be LESS with the higher velocity/higher pressure loads than with standard pressure. I tend to use the +P versions in my backup weapons with smaller barrels and standard pressure In my duty size weapons. This may seem counterintuitive to common logic, however I do not personally notice much felt recoil increase in the smaller platform (Glock 26/Sheild9) or any greater muzzle flash so I like the +P in a short barrel and standard pressure on the longer barrels to keep velocity around the same point where I will get the best combination of good expansion and sufficient penetration. In closing I will also add that in my experience, IMI produces great ammo that is usually very reasonably priced. I have shot literally thousands of their 5.56 M193 and M855 and have found it to be accurate, clean and reliable. Around my area I can get boxes of 30rds of their 5.56 for under $12 which is a great bargain and the price point only gets better with bulk buys of quantity. Pleasant shooting.
