For use as defensive ammunition, what are the two or three least expensive factory 357 Magnum ammunitions having a consistent record of being effective in three-to-four inch barrels, such as Ruger SP101 and S&W Model 60?

Is any of these ammunitions effective as far as 50 yards? I suspect a better variation of this question might be to ask at what distance would you expect its consistently reliable effectiveness to become questionable?

Are you asking if a .357 from a 3" barrel would be lethal at 50 yds? If you can place it,it'll do the job.

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Because of the metric system?

For defensive ammo, cost is not an option. Any of the big 3 and Speer have excellent results with a 125 JHP. 96% one shot stops.

For self defense 50 yards is WAY beyond the range. Statistics show most self defense shootings are at near contact distances. Like less than 5 yards. At 50 yards it would be difficult to make the case that the threat was imminent enough to justify a self-defense shooting.

357 rounds are lethal to deer out to 75 or even 100 yards from a 20" rifle barrel. From a 3-4 inch revolver barrel they'd be nearly as lethal - if you can make the shot placement. That's really the limiting factor - at 50 yards just about any commercial 357 ammo has enough power to be just as lethal as your accuracy makes it.

Curious set of seemingly mismatched parameters in your questions. You've gotten good answers here, but unless your a soldier, or the zombie's invade, a fifty yard self-defense kill is going to be a hard sell in court.

Been shooting various revolvers chambered for the .357 S&W Magnum since 1980. Day in and day out, the very best load has been a 125 gr. JHP loaded to full magnum velocity. Fired from a four inch Model 19/66... it's a handful. Fired from a four inch L-frame 586/686, it is manageable. Longer barrels make it much easier to use effectively. A three inch barrel would loose a slight bit of velocity, but not enough to cause any real concern.

I personally like the common 125 gr. JHP loads by Remington and Federal. I cannot see any need for the hyped up SD loads/bullets currently marketed by manufacturers. I'm sure the various newly developed loads are fun to test and doubtless they do a real good job on ballistic gel. I do my testing on milk jugs filled with water, concrete blocks, chunks of wood and various varmints. I've found that the 125 JHP .357 mangum load is just about pure poison for anything I use it on. It is not a deer hunting round. It kills well, but it makes a real mess of things. A 158 gr. JHP or LSWC is a better hunting round.

For actual use in SD/HD, you might want to consider using a plus P .38 Special. Reality is that it doesn't take a cannon to deal with a intruder. It takes hits on target. Unless someone has really done a lot of shooting, using a .357 magnum in a small gun... 3-4 inch barrel in a K-frame... it's a handful. Getting off a good second shot if needed is not going to be easy. The muzzle blast is going to be very impressive... disorienting (guess how I know). A plus P .38 Special using good JHP ammo will be extremely effective at across the room/down the hall distances. It will also be much easier to use for any necessary repeat shots. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

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Sorry Sport, but when it comes to defensive ammo in a firearm, cost takes a backseat to performance. You want the best performing round you can comfortably fire, that works consistently in your weapon. Cost should not be a consideration when you think about what is on the line should you use your weapon to defend yourself or others......

I suggest that you look into writings by Massad Ayoob and other ACKNOWLEDGED experts. Most SD situations are short, sharp and at close range. There are a LOT of misconceptions about SD events that have been rebuffed by reliable methods.

PS: Did a little rough calculation from a ballistic program. Out of a revolver a 125 grain conventional JHP bullet (Corbon +P launched at 900 ft/sec (2" barrel from 'Ballistics by the Inch') will drop to about 850 ft/sec at 50 yards. Since most SD situations happen at much closer ranges, energy at impact is the least of our worries. It's been shown that bullet placement is one of the most important factors.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I'll grant the benefit of the doubt that SD effectiveness and 50yd distances are two different things, that he is looking for ammo for both requirements.

SD ammo is important, how much $ is your life worth, and etc. That said, I grant benefit of doubt he meant he wanted ammo inexpensive enough to shoot a lot, while still not being terrible for SD. So, I'll bite. W-W White Box 110gr jhp. Old School, but still does what it does. Kind of a 3/4 load, helps with control in the J Frame and SP101 mentioned, not much more recoil than 158gr .38spl +P .

If cost is really an issue, I would go with the 50 round boxes of Remington 357mag 125 grain SJHP. It was the issue round when I started as a cop, and has an excellent record of one shot stops. The newer, and more expensive Gold Dots, Ranger Bonded, etc. may be as good, but I doubt they are much better.

Larry

While I suppose a 50-yard defensive shot that is legally justifiable is theoretically possible, I imagine such circumstances would be so rare that I wouldn't even worry about terminal ballistics at that distance, let alone being able to hit a target that far away with a snub revolver. I can get decent CoM hits with my 642 out to about 15 yards or so, but that's at the range under ideal conditions with nobody trying to kill me.

That was my favorite .357 Magnum load. Easy to shoot in my 3" 65. IIRC, ballistically it's on par with 9mm 115gr +P, more or less. The only downside I could recall was a rather large fireball coming out the muzzle.

However, for self-defense, I'm probably more in agreement with those recommending .38 Special loads. When I carried my 3" 65 it was usually loaded with either Speer .38 Special 135gr SB-GDHP +P or Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158gr LSWCHP std. pressure (roughly same performance as +P from other brands).

Mid-range .357 Magnum loads would be a good choice, too. Occasionally I'd carry my 65 loaded with Speer .357 Magnum 135gr SB-GDHP.

The nice thing about revolvers is that they don't require a lot of ammunition to check for reliability with self-defense loads.

The 50 yard issue has been well addressed. If you need to shoot 50 yards, buy a rifle.

Pick whatever 125gr. JHP your gun store carries. If I wanted cheap, I'd use the Remington 125 SJHP. Very good record.

I will go against the grain here. I do not believe you need to take out a second mortgage to buy SD ammunition. I have no need to shoot through automotive glass, which is the major reason for bonding pistol ammo.

Yes, Old School 125 jhp remains very effective. The lesser recoil of the 110gr may or may not be worthwhile tradeoff depending on individual person AND specific gun.

With the theme of cheap, to me that means value priced 50rd boxes, and more or less readily available in brick & morter establishments. I semi-regularly see the WWB .357 at big box stores, WalMart , and LGS. Haven't seen any 50rd box of R-P 125sjhp anywhere in person since probably the 20th century. Rem generic .45acp 230jhp & 9mm 115jhp are both seen with semi-regularity, so its not a Remington distribution thing, but a .357 specifically.

Personally I like 135 gr. Gold Dot Short Barrel .357 in my S&W m-60. It chrono's at 970 to 990 fps. out of my
2 1/8" model 60. Recoil is very manageable with hogue rubber grips.

I reload, so my practice loads are 158 gr loaded to about the same velocity.
I like to practice at 20 to 25 yds. and do not notice much change in point of impact.
I'm not sure what generic 50 rd. box has similar velocity.

I figure if you can shoot a group the size of a softball at 25 yds. ,, 10 yds should be a piece of cake..
I've never practiced at 50 yds.,, mostly because of range limitations. Should / would like to try 50 yds sometime..

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I load .357s with lower end .357 loads which are well over what a .38 +P+ is stretching to reach. Especially if you have 3" or more of barrel to work with.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Underwood GTG

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627 5", 327 PC, 640

Out of small guns like you mentioned, I would prefer 38 special.

For my snubnose I bought a case of Remington +P 158-grain LSWC-HP, the old "FBI Load." It has a long track record of reliability. Its recoil and muzzle blast are not unbearable. And - wait for it - it is among the least expensive 38 Special defense ammunition that works in reality. Please note there is a huge difference between "inexpensive" and "cheap." Inexpensive implies lower cost at value. Cheap implies lower value.

Reading replies, one thing that stands out is the variability of what is the best available defensive 357 Magnum ammunition. It is this variability I wanted to have addressed. Prices differ among these bests, perhaps not by that much per cartridge. Since I own no 357 Magnum ammunition, the efficient way to identify what's out there that works is to ask people who use it, people who have used it in a defensive circumstance. I prefer to believe that those who use such ammunition would not deliberately invest more money than they believe will get the job done.

I should have been clearer that the query about "up to 50 yards" has nothing to do with the first part. It is curiosity to determine how well ammunition designed to be effective at shorter range will retain that effectiveness. Nothing more.

FYI: That case of ammunition had a cost of 33¢ per cartridge, excluding shipping. Is there superior ammunition as shootable for me? Dunno. What I do know is practicing with the ammunition I will be using will not be intimidating. And practice is something we all agree on.

I've been shooting .357s since 1965 and I'm pretty sure a .357 with any bullet and any barrel length will defend you from anything but a big, big bear. Larry

I still use the 145 Silvertip which has less muzzle flash than the 125's I have used and not as much recoil as the 158's. Just my opinion but I have killed three deer with this round out of a 4" 686 and all three were one shot kills and the bullets did not exit any of the deer.

In just about any self defense situation I can think of if you shoot someone at 50 yards you go to jail - you could just leave the situation ..7-10 yards is typical for a self defense shooting, I would think just about any 357 hp ammo would suffice. I beleive the 357 has the best record as a man stopper

Use whatever you shoot in quantity.

It's much more important that you master your revolver using ammo you shoot regularly than falling for the ammo maker's bs.

If you can't hit it , it makes no difference what you miss with.

I have a M&P 340 that I keep in my pocket everyday. I chose the Remington HTP's. It is a 125 SJHP that comes oit at 1200 fps out of the 1 7/8 barrel. Thats smoking for a short barrel.

I carry a model 19 snubbie.

I like the Hornady 158 gr SD loads.

It still has enough energy at 50 yards to do what it needs to do. Actually I think 357 is probably as good as it gets for SD but that's just an old guy talkin.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Question is, was it self defense. 7-10 yards might be your average self defense shooting but juries don't work on averages. I'm thinking you can defend yourself at 50 yards if you think someone is trying to kill you from that distance and has demonstrated that. The OP's question is totally relevant.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Hornady's 125 gr Critical Defense has tested well and isn't too expensive. Another option is Federal's 125gr JHP has an outstanding track record, but I think they only sell them in the 20 round box now. If cost is really an issue, there's the Winchester White Box 110gr JHP, which is a tad hotter than the old 38 treasury load. My vote (if you can find them), Winchester's 145gr Silvertip HP.

Not going to comment on the 50yd bit. It's your butt on the line, not mine. Good luck...

The first consideration for you would be to determine if you would have the mindset to pull the trigger.
The second concern here would be to make sure you can hit the target.
The third would be penetration.
My over 50 years experience in this indicates that you are well served by the Glaser Safety slugs for defense since they have little recoil, lots of stopping power and low penetration.
You will need to practice,( a lot ), with light loads of similar recoil and do so at close ranges since that is what defense shooting is. You need to shoot the gun with either hand and singe/double action. You can be price sensitive for your parctice ammo but not so for you defense ammo. Dummy shells for you to learn trigger control is also a good idea.

My favorite .357 Magnum SD ammo is the Winchester Silvertips followed by Speer Gold Dot ammo but neither are inexpensive. I think the PMC and Fiocchi make good and inexpensive SD ammo. You can get them for under 70 cents a round where most are up near $1.50/round or more. That is just my opinion.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Well, unfortunately, you're going to find as many opinions on the issue of the best SD .357 Mag ammo as there are posters. As for your last statement, about people not deliberately investing more money than necessary, that's pretty far from reality. I'm pretty sure I've got a box or three of everything that's been mentioned so far, along with some embarrassingly expensive stuff and some real budget rounds. They all work fine, and I've always believed that if you put a couple .22 Shorts in the 10 ring, the bad guy will never be listening to Fibber McGee and Molly again. I've seen a bunch of people spend a bunch of what I thought was unnecessary money on stuff, but I'm sure they think the same of some of my purchases. What you need to do is find something that works in your gun, for your situation, at your price point. If 99% of the posters here call BS on your choice, might ought to change it. If there's a 50/50 argument, you're fine.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I hear this a lot, but what if that person was shooting at you?

I had a guy shooting at me from 80 yards away. Rather than run closer to him to make sure a 'court' would be happy I just went a head and shot him. I've been in 6 gunfights, all at work. YOU don't get to pick the place or distance, the bad guy does, or they did in every fight I was in.

Apples and Oranges. The part of my quote you omitted, was that you had better be on the job, if your killing people at long range. The OP is a civilian looking for cheap ammo for long range kills from a small frame, short barreled gun.

I'm a novice civilian, but that seems like a mismatched set of parameters for a near non-existent scenario. Your an expert LEO. Have you seen a civilian forced to make a 50 yard, righteous, self-defense shoot with a J-Frame?

I guess none of the "experts" ever considered this possibility.

Talk about apples & oranges! I am a civilian and I've been shot at several times and none of them were from close range. The point about longer range defensive shooting does not depend upon gun caliber or frame size. My most "memorable" occasion saw me armed with a single shot .22 rifle. So all of you who say it is "near non existent" have never been in those shoes and/or you think a handful of people shouldn't return fire because the courts might not approve? Seems to me you live in a city and don't spend time out in the country where longer ranges are common. Wake up - crime exists out on the farm too.

Ayoob once wrote that anyone with any type of gunwithin 100 yards is a deadly threat. Out here, where cattle rusters are a real thing, I can easily envision a 50 yard shooting. A jury is unlikely to convict anyone shooting rustlers anyway.

I used to shoot my 6" 686 at 25 yard targets with good results. But 50 and a 3" sight radius and stress...going to be difficult. Difficult is not impossible.

I would try any factory JHP of good manufacture between 125 and 158 grains and see what the gun and shooter liked.

All good advice... I like big, slower-moving bullets based on 5 years as a Texas State Trooper and 28+ yrs. in the FBI. Our duty-issue ammo in .357 Mag was always one of the 158 grain HP loads, the Winchester Western loading seems to stand out in my mind. Pretty nasty round and no doubt it would still have plenty of energy left at 50 yards if you hit your target...

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TMW
ExFed

Many people only plan and train for self-defense within three to seven yards. I guess they have never heard of active shooters or terrorists with long guns. Where I live, there is a much higher chance of an encounter with a black bear or mountain lion while walking my dogs than a mugger or a terrorist. My favorite .357 magnum round is the Hornady 140 grain FTX ammo which has a much flatter trajectory for longer shots. If you carry it, you should train with it because the point of impact will be very different than other ammo. Cost of self-defense guns or ammo should be the last criteria, not the first.

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U.S. Navy - U.S. Army, ret

In the scenarios that you and Gator Farmer describe, you wouldn't be hamstrung by limiting yourself to snubby J-frames shooting cheap ammo, at long range. You guy's are on large rural properties with rifles and long-barrel L-frames.

Of course your always going to defend yourself to the best of your ability, with the best thing you have at hand. The OP is setting himself a losing scenario. If your compiling tools for a job, you bring what you need, but how many SD rounds are you going to expend, where cost becomes a factor?

Your right, I am thinking urban/suburban defense, although I have lived in rural areas, even a farm in Lancaster county, PA. I rarely hear about farmers and ranchers defending themselves in court for long-range self-defense kills, even rarer yet would be a short-barreled handgun used for that purpose.

When I "woods walk", I switch to a 3" .357, for critters in dense woods. If I traversed wide-open spaces, where incoming fire were likely, I'd carry a longer barrel weapon, invest in a ballistic vest, and seriously consider moving.

Following the forums theme of learning from others experience, I am very intrigued about what you attribute the cause of your being targeted by long range gun-fire, multiple times. I would certainly like to avoid whatever scenario you would be willing to share.

In my case two were poachers trespassing on the family farm, and I have no idea about the third. My guess was "thrill seekers" from Pittsburgh looking for a laugh at the expense of us country bumpkins. There was a lot of bad blood between those two groups back then, with a local cop in Greenville being murdered during a traffic stop.

That's why I am so amused by the "seven yards maximum" statement.

I only comment on my circumstances, as I am fully aware that most people do not live where I do, nor face my challenges. These days I would be most concerned about wild dogs and an outside chance of a pack of coyotes or a bear, although the latter two are highly unlikely.

How sad. Who woulda thunk this happens in PA?

Think i'd take a scoped AR when walkin the "back forty"

Noplace is completely safe anymore......

I don't claim any expertise but I do like the Silvertip for .357 revolvers. It has always been very accurate in my guns and seems powerful enough without being excessively so, and thus being too hard on the smaller frame guns.

I wouldn't want anyone shooting at me from 50-yards away with Silvertips in a good 4-inch .357.

If cheap was a major criteria I suppose the Federal American Eagle 158-grain load would be as good as any, and better than some at 50-yards.

Not if the aggressor has a long gun.

Back in the day I carried a S&W model 28-2 (4") loaded with Super Vel 137 gr. JSP in .357 mag. Fortunately I never had to shoot anyone with it, but later when I was required to carry another round, I did some hunting with the Super Vel round and it performed very well on white tailed deer. With a good hit, it would stop a deer in it's tracks from that same model 28-2 from 40-50 yards. Deer don't give up easily.

True enough, and then by God, if you are shooting back with a J or an SP101, you had best be on you game, brother!

I alternate between an M&P340 with CorBon 110 jhps or my LCR with Federal 158 sjhps, both shoot to point of aim at 10 yds, truth told, I haven't tried them at 50. I do have a 2" Model 15 that I can stay on a paper plate at 50 with, but I like the extra power of a 357 round. If I have to shoot at something in order to stay alive, I want power, in a size gun that I won't leave at home because it's a pain in the *** to tote. Silly me, fiddle dee dee...

50 yards? I'll pass on this one.

Low cost ammo.
With a 3-4" barrel the 38 158gr FBI will work.

The Remington 125gr 357 Magnum low recoil is worth looking at.

All the other standard 357 ammo will work if you can handle it.
Hay..........
it is a 357 MAGNUM !!