00 vs. #1 buck

Jessie · Jun 9, 2016

I put this here since its not ammo for your S&W.
I learned that 00 buck has quite a spread at 30yds, even out of a 26" cyl bore.
You'll be lucky to hit a gallon paint can at 30yds.
It will be close, and a B2 target will take some hits, but using #1 buck will insure several hits.
In a home, 00buck is devastating. At 30 yds. Not as much. #1 buck will be devastating at in home ranges also plus almost double the
hits at 30 yds.
It's 9 .33cal pellets with a 2 3/4" 00 buck vs. 16 .24cal #1 buck 2 3/4".
More energy with the 00, but more hits with the #1 buck.
When ranges are 25/30 yds. what do you prefer?

Kronos · Jun 9, 2016

OO buck isn't for range,you want that go get some slugs,they do have some...."flite control" I think it's called that the law folks are raging over,I've heard it kinda sucks at rage which I'd expect since those pellets are small.

Which I think you should also look at:how do those pellets do penetration wise? I'd be leery past twenty yards.

Oh yea,if you insist on a dual use round look for the "buck and ball" load they've made some the last few years,it's a few 00 pellets and big'ol .69 cal ball.

Rpg · Jun 9, 2016

Buck shot of any sort is highly overrated in my opinion

Sure, it will work in a home, but so will a light load of 7 1/2 shot. Anyone who doubts this hasn't shot many critters with a shotgun.

At longer ranges (25-35 yards) almost any pistol is better.

Sure, you may get a few hits at that range, but you're throwing a lot of buckshot that won't come close to your target. What hits you get have little retained energy, little retained velocity and won't penetrate enough to be reliable.

Sure, you'll punch holes in a paper target, but so what?

Kronos · Jun 9, 2016

Rpg said:
Sure, it will work in a home, but so will a light load of 7 1/2 shot.

Just stop,that's bad info to be slinging as truth any birdshot is a bad idea for defense but if I had to got-no-choice type of thing I'd use a turkey load #4 shot high base at close range.

People have caught birdshot to the face and lived,in fact some people have tried suicide with it and lived....well not much to live for but they're alive.

Still the #4 might not work or it may knock them right over,buckshot is cheap enough to not have some it's stupid.

charlie sherrill · Jun 9, 2016

I prefer #4 buckshot in a short barreled riot gun for home protection (with a back-up M&P 45 with a bottom rail light) and "OO" buck shot for deer hunting in brushy areas and at close range (50 yards and under.) Past 50 yards. I use a scoped rifle.

mike from st pete · Jun 9, 2016

charlie sherrill said:
I prefer #4 buckshot in a short barreled riot gun for home protection (with a back-up M&P 45 with a bottom rail light) and "OO" buck shot for deer hunting in brushy areas and at close range (50 yards and under.) Past 50 yards. I use a scoped rifle.

This^
#4 buck puts 25 or so .22 caliber sized balls in the air at 1500FPS. Thru an improved cylinder choke is my SD/HD preference.

Jessie · Jun 9, 2016

Charlie, 50 yds. Is not close range for buckshot of any size.
That's about twice the effective range of buck shot.
I'll edit that to say if hit. Which is questionable beyond 30yds.

JayFramer · Jun 9, 2016

"Buckshot is not the stopper most people think it is"

-Jim Cirillo

And if anybody would know, it's him.

Frankly, I think shotguns are highly overrated for the purposes of defending one's abode from human attackers. I would much rather choose something with less recoil, faster follow up shots, and greater magazine capacity with less of a reload time than a shotgun, i.e. an AR-15 or even an M1 carbine. As for overpenetration of buckshot vs carbine rounds, you might want to look up the ballistics tests on that. Turns out, buckshot penetrates farther than high-velocity carbine rounds.

There is a reason why Law Enforcement and the military are moving away from shotguns and towards carbines. They are fantastic hunting guns, and always will be, but for defense? Sorry, there are better options today and their have been for about 75 years now.

Mike SC Hunter · Jun 9, 2016

Apparently not many here have had significant experience with buckshot. I have used it for over 40 years dog hunting for deer here in the south.......Tight patterns can routinely be achieved with the right choke combination at 40/50 yards.....And at that distance a 00B can break bones and shoot clean through a deer(about the same thickness of a human).......Try it and you will see.

SPEEDGUNNER · Jun 9, 2016

No. 4 Buck is your optimum load, period...I learned that hunting leopard in Zimbabwe.

jimmyj · Jun 9, 2016

My choice for close range is a 12 gauge with #4 Buckshot Up to 25 yards it will do the job.

Kronos · Jun 9, 2016

JayFramer said:
"Buckshot is not the stopper most people think it is"

-Jim Cirillo

And if anybody would know, it's him.

Once again a few factors-if a person isn't willing to actually use a weapon right then anything can suck.

If you're talking about getting in a serious fight with a number of enemies then yea you'd be better off with a Amalite,AK,M1 carbine et cetera.
But if it's a general use thing and it's most likely you and maybe two idiots trying to rob your house then I fail to see how a load of OO buck at close range is not gonna have an effect on the bad guys.

Even with several opponents a few quick shots would do a lot of harm.

And I don't get the reload thing,if you HAVE to reload best to drop it and get you handgun out and finish business.....

Rule3 · Jun 9, 2016

My preferred for close range or up to 30 is 15 rounds of 9mm.

A shotgun in the house in the dead of night? Good luck with that! Deaf and Blind.

Jessie · Jun 9, 2016

Rule3 said:
My preferred for close range or up to 30 is 15 rounds of 9mm.
A shotgun in the house in the dead of night? Good luck with that! Deaf and Blind.

Maybe, but deaf blind and dead will usually be the outcome for a BG confronted with a 12 ga. Within the home.
A 9mm? Maybe, maybe not.

NYlakesider · Jun 9, 2016

First off I live in the peoples republic of NY and to be legal have some interesting regulations to follow.

Second I live in a very rural area, assuming my LL still works LEO help could easily be 20 or more minuets. (no cell service in my area)

Third Bears and other critters ( some with rabies) could have to be dealt with!

For those reason my primary gun is a Mossie 12G 20'' 9 shot loaded to fire 5 rounds of 00 buck with 4 slugs to follow. There is a bandoleer with 40 more rounds (both 00 and slugs) next to gun. I also have in the safe a couple more 12Gauges (one a short barrel coach gun) and that ammo could be used in them if needed.

Its only the wife and I and we have no close neighbors to worry about over penetration. When those two jail birds busted out of a upstate prison last year I also had my Mini 14 handy. My carry gun is always close by. The wife will have it!

FWIW!
Many years back we had a very dangerous person (Robert Garrow) running around and was taken down by a 12G buck load at about a 100 yards. Shot was fired by a conservation officer! Yes it had a bit of luck to it but it stopped him and allowed him to be captured. If that was fired at 50 yard or less best bet he would have taken a few more balls.

Jessie · Jun 9, 2016

With luck, as you said. I'd prefer not to rely on luck

Kronos · Jun 9, 2016

You do have to keep in mind what's beyond the target with any weapon,for me I'm out in the middle of nowhere WV and the closest house is a good three or so hundred yards,plus we have trees up ze butt so~most buckshot I don't worry about.

A slug? I'd have to be careful.

Right now all I have is the 9mm but I want another 12ga.

fiasconva · Jun 9, 2016

One of our resident experts, Mr. Ayoob, has recommended #1 buck in several articles and posts I have read. I think the GA. State Patrol did a study a few years ago and found that #1 buck filled the pattern better, didn't penetrate walls like 00 Buck did, and was generally more effective.

Ranger514 · Jun 9, 2016

Back in the day, I experimented firing 12 ga. 00 Buck from 25 yards at the range to show my fellow officers the effectivness of the 870 IC pumps we carried in our patrol vehicles. While the qualification course of fire was done at 15 yards, with most pellets striking inside the center mass 4 and 5 rings of a TransStar human outline target, at 25 yards, the pattern opened up to cover most of the full body of the target. I would expect #1 buck would provide even more hits. YMMV. For duty carry, we alternated 00 and slugs because of the ability of slugs to penetrate glass and metal. Considering the fact that some BGs wear body armor, a pellet spread makes stopping them with a head shot a lot more feasible than attempting to do so with a handgun. IMO, a shotgun is a versatile defensive firearm.

Rule3 · Jun 9, 2016

Jessie said:
Maybe, but deaf blind and dead will usually be the outcome for a BG confronted with a 12 ga. Within the home.
A 9mm? Maybe, maybe not.

No for the shooter, try inside a closed room at 2AM

My thoughts at SD range with a shotgun does it matter if it is 00 or #4 ???
At 30 yards why are you shooting the person anyway?

00 vs. #1 buck

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