Greetings!

My recently acquired Pre-War Outdoorsman is screaming to "go to the field". However, Colorado big game regulations mandate that handguns generate a minimum of 550 fpe at 50 yards to be legal for hunting Deer or Elk.

It there a factory .38-44 replica load or reasonable 158 gr handload that would meet this criteria without unduly stressing my new pride and joy?

Buffalo Bore's "Outdoorsman" load shows approx. 552 fpe at the muzzle from a 6" barrel, but quickly drops off. From their tables, over 1400 fps at the muzzle would necessary for the 158 gr SWC to retain 550 fpe at 50 yards.

Note- This would not be my primary weapon, but if the ideal shot presented itself or a coup de grace was necessary, it would be cool for the Outdoorman to participate.

Thanks for your input!

Hunter

What you're asking for is a .357 Magnum load. Published .38-44 loads max out at about 1250 ft/sec muzzle velocity with a 158 grain bullet and develop about 25,000 psi. To get to 1400 ft/sec, you would have to get into .357 Magnum pressures. I have a pre-war Outdoorsman also and I wouldn't subject it to .357 Magnum pressures.

I have read that the 38-44 loads were around 1150FPS. A .38 Spec. case, 15 grs. of 2400 and a 158 gr. bullet out of a six in. Colt Python clocked 1194 FPS for me. I only have a 3rd grade education but I am led to believe that 1400 FPS out of a .38 Spec. is way past reasonable. Larry

Short answer is NO! Even a .357 Magnum is hard put to give that energy figure at 50 yards with modern jacketed bullet loads. You would need a muzzle velocity in excess of 1350 FPS with most bullets, depending on ballistic coefficient, and this isn't reasonable with a .38 Special!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

The majority of .357 Magnum ammo from Federal, Remington and Winchester fails to meet those specifications. I’m pretty sure I read the exact same post last night on another forum. The answer is still the same. You will be beating the snot out of your gun if you somehow find any that meets that threshold.

Sounds like exactly what Elmer was doing when they developed the 357.
It's way over pressure for a 38.

.357 Magnum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Thanks!

I suspected as much, but thought this would be the best place to ask.

I have no desire to abuse the Outdoorsman.

Nope- I only posted here. Maybe there is another person in the interwebs person asking about Colorado hunting loads for their Outdoorsman/Heavy Duty.

Not that it couldn't be done, just not a good idea due to the high (but unknown) pressures involved. Just how much do you trust the safety factor built into the gun's design? Now if you had a Ruger .357 Maximum, it might be do-able safely. Otherwise, you need to go to a .44 Mag.

Too hot, just use Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman +P load. That load actually exceeds the 38-44 as tested from a revolver. 38-44 loads from 6 in revolver gets about 1,050 - 1,100 fps depending on revolver. Factory ballastics were tested in factory unvented test barrels, reduce those by about 50-75 +/- fps for real world velocities imho.

You could duplicate 38-44 load with 158 gr hard cast and old Unique and 2400 data - I will not recommend the amounts since they are no longer published.

"Too hot, just use Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman +P load. That load actually exceeds the 38-44 as tested from a revolver. 38-44 loads from 6 in revolver gets about 1,050 - 1,100 fps depending on revolver. Factory ballastics were tested in factory unvented test barrels, reduce those by about 50-75 +/- fps for real world velocities imho."

Re-read the original poster's post. He was looking for a loading that met Colorado Fish & Game's regulations for handgun hunting big game. He already knows about Buffalo Bore and knows that is nowhere near what he wants and needs to carry while hunting in Colorado..

The short answer is no.

The various states have their hunting regulations. With handguns in particular they can be arbitrary, and not particularly related what will suitability kill a deer.

Sorry, my suggestion, get a 41 or 44 Magnum. I wouldn't hunt anything larger than Whitetail with a 38-44 or 357 for that matter

Simple answer is you need a longer barrel, a much longer barrel. I have a load worked up for my 357 Magnum Winchester 1982 Short Rifle (20 inch barrel) that clocks a 158 grain Hornady XTP at 1615 fps 10 feet from the muzzle. Since this is actually a rather light load of H110 I'm rather confident that a heavier charge could be put together that easily met your energy requirement at 50 yards. Having cooked up some rather hot handloads I have enough experience with the 357 Magnum to be pretty certain you won't achieve that specific energy level out of any barrel shorter than something in the range of 14 inches.