.22 LR case collapse and debris blown out port of AR22

ZBill

ZBill

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I just had an experience that reminded me why shooters always need to wear shooting glasses. I was firing my Tactical Solutions AR22 upper and basically had an explosion of smoke, gas, and debris out the ejection port. I put the carbine on safe and saw that the case had ruptured, was somewhat collapsed lengthwise, and was still partially in the chamber. I teased it out and made sure that the barrel was clear. I probably had 2-3 boxes of the same ammo (Federal 36 Gr copper plated hollow point) through it since the last cleaning and the bolt apparatus was relatively clean. After the incident I fired another 25 rounds without incident.

Has anyone experienced this type of malfunction and/or has a suggestion of what caused this event?

Regards, Bill
 

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Looks to me like it fired out of battery. The unsupported part of the case ruptured when it went off.
 
bummer said:
looks like it fired out of battery , maybe the firing pin was sticking
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That's what it very well could be. Make sure there isn't anything in the pin channel wedging the firing pin forward and not letting it retract back into the bolt. If stuck forward it could be firing the round as the bolt is pushing it out of the magazine and into the chamber.
 
67tempest said:
Looks to me like it fired out of battery. The unsupported part of the case ruptured when it went off.
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Agreed: I had this happen with one of those 9mm carbines a few years ago. It was a serious situation for me since I'm a lefty and the empties eject close to my face. I never trusted this carbine totally again and I sold it shortly thereafter.
Jim
 
I see what you guys are saying about firing out of battery but I have a hard time envisioning it. If it's chambered and the firing pin strikes it, that's how it's supposed to work.

Are you saying the firing pin struck the rim before the round was fully chambered?
 
AlHunt said:
I see what you guys are saying about firing out of battery but I have a hard time envisioning it. If it's chambered and the firing pin strikes it, that's how it's supposed to work.

Are you saying the firing pin struck the rim before the round was fully chambered?
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Yes, but maybe the firing pin was stuck in the "fire" position when the bolt went forward and in doing so it struck the rim causing it to fire. 22 rounds have that waxy coating and it could have caused that round to not fully chamber.
 
Extractor could have been jammed by debris, and fired the primer instead of riding over the rim as it should.
 
Thanks for the input

Appears I had an out of battery event. I am also a lefty and had quite a face full of smoke. From the photo the firing pin make contact at some point.
 

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I have been privileged to enjoy 3 of these in the last year. Yours sounds like a detonation of too much priming compound. Federal blamed the Victory, I know an overload when I see it, this one flat detonated.

I have tried to make the firearms that have experienced this and cannot make them fire out of battery.

I do not feel it is the firearm, but a quality control problem with the manufacturer of the ammo.

Here is another view.
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My gunsmith and I tried to make firearms fire out of battery, pulled bullets and we could not make it happen. This one was a S&W Victory, S&W have repaired it twice. Once thanks to Federal, once thanks to CCI.
 
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Though at first glance I'd guess the problem was firing out of battery,,but as most all 22RF blowbacks will drop the firingpin/striker before the bolt is closed all the way (not in battery), it doesn't make it my first choice.

What I do suspect is the ammunition/round itself.
The casing is supposed to be a seal in the chamber of a blowback when fired.
There is a micro second(s) of hesitation as the bullet moves forward before the case moves rearward from the case gripping the chamber walls. Then that friction lets go and the case drives the bolt/breech rearward.
If the brass is not the right temper and/or the correct thickness, it will move rearward too quickly and expose the rear part of the caseing to an unsupported position slightly out of the chamber while those chamber pressures are still very high.
That along with possible weakened brass from poor tempering can leave the case unable to contain the pressures within (they run about 25K psi in the 22LR).
The brass ruptures, usually at and around the edge of the case rim,,a weak point in the forming process.
Sometimes the areas of where the bolts extractor(s)/cartridge guides can be seen as small flaps of brass pushed outward as they are partially supported by those parts during the incident.

It all happens in a instant. Smoke, powder debris and brass particles blown out,,and with that 25K PSI force behind it.

With the poor QC of the 22RF ammo lately I've experienced and that I've read others have had, I'm not surprised more incidents have occured.

Wear Glasses.

Just the way I see it.
 
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2152hq said:
Though at first glance I'd guess the problem was firing out of battery,,but as most all 22RF blowbacks will drop the firingpin/striker before the bolt is closed all the way (not in battery), it doesn't make it my first choice.

What I do suspect is the ammunition/round itself.
The casing is supposed to be a seal in the chamber of a blowback when fired.
There is a micro second(s) of hesitation as the bullet moves forward before the case moves rearward from the case gripping the chamber walls. Then that friction lets go and the case drives the bolt/breech rearward.
If the brass is not the right temper and/or the correct thickness, it will move rearward too quickly and expose the rear part of the caseing to an unsupported position slightly out of the chamber while those chamber pressures are still very high.
That along with possible weakened brass from poor tempering can leave the case unable to contain the pressures within (they run about 25K psi in the 22LR).
The brass ruptures, usually at and around the edge of the case rim,,a weak point in the forming process.
Sometimes the areas of where the bolts extractor(s)/cartridge guides can be seen as small flaps of brass pushed outward as they are partially supported by those parts during the incident.

It all happens in a instant. Smoke, powder debris and brass particles blown out,,and with that 25K PSI force behind it.

With the poor QC of the 22RF ammo lately I've experienced and that I've read others have had, I'm not surprised more incidents have occured.

Wear Glasses.

Just the way I see it.
Click to expand...

I suppose all that is possible but it seems like a rather complicated confluence of circumstance compared to the earlier suggestion that the firing pin may have not retracted fully after the previous round fired.

Obviously, we'll never know for sure.
 
Over several years I have had multiple out of battery discharges like this with 3 different conversion units. A DPMS, ( no longer sold), a CZ, (no longer sold) and a Tactical Solutions unit which I still have and still shoot. I can provide an anecdotal explanation. Initially, I used the cheapest .22 LR ammo I could find as accuracy potential out of these units is at best mediocre. In trying to identify a brand, (tried just about everything available including several highly regarded "Target" loads), that would shoot well in my conversion I found that CCI HV performed best and since using that brand exclusively I have experienced NO more unwelcome OOB events. I usually shoot several hundred rounds at sitting after which I thoroughly clean and lube my rifle. My belief is that this problem is primarily ammo caused but I do not totally discount quality and cleanliness of the conversion unit. YMMV???
 
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