My old department, New South Wales Police Force, is also going over to 9mm. Apparently being replaced by G17 Gen 5's. NSWPF have been running G22, G23, and G27 since about 1998.

It really is rather remarkable just how much influence the FBI has over Law Enforcement agencies when even ones in foreign nations are dropping the .40 S&W in favor of 9mm Luger.

I know that folks will argue that it has more to do with the statistics between the two cartridges, but the fact that foreign countries ever adopted .40 S&W in the first place suggests otherwise.

Seriously, what if the FBI had decided to switch from .40 S&W to 5.7x28 FN, would everybody be following their lead on that too? Because I strongly doubt that every law enforcement agency on Earth which previously adopted .40 S&W has conducted their own testing and reached the same conclusion, especially considering all of the short-term expenses that said testing and the subsequent switchover would entail, so it just seems like everyone is taking the FBI's word for it. Never mind the fact that the FBI has never actually divulged the parameters of their testing, nor the details regarding what loads were tested, and certainly not the smoking gun that is the obvious motivation for why said tests were ever allegedly conducted in the first place.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Honestly, I am quite amazed at how this thread has evolved! Looking at the initial post that started this dialog, I never suggested that my purchase would be for carry, but more as a range toy. I can only imagine where this would have gone had I asked about a: 400 Corbon, 357/44 Bain & Davis, a 9mm Dillon, a 45 Win Mag or any other capable but forgotten cartridge!

Obviously, the 40 S&W is not a handgun hunting round, and most likely wouldn't be a first choice for metallic silhouette. It's forte apparently is as a law enforcement round, much like the: 32 S&W, 38 S&W, 38 Special, 9mm Luger, 41 Magnum mid-range load, or 45 ACP ... with each appearance being an "improvement" on a predecessor cartridge. And many people follow law enforcement selections for self-defense.

Listening, I hear a few arguments ... but what I hear most is how it is better than/worse than the 9mm. A 610 would probably be better than a 57, because of 40 S&W/10 mm interchangability (as a sporting or self-defense round).

I wouldn't have a problem stocking/reloading 40 S&W. What I hear, is that in an appropriately sized pistol, it could be a viable self-defense/service round. I guess what is missing is that it doesn't have a definitive use reputation.

Thank you are for your input!

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Judge control not gun control!

A Glock 27 is my EDC .. I have two Glock 23's all are Gen 3 ... All are loaded with Federal 180gr HST ...

FWIW i shoot my cast 170 gr truncated cone bullets in both my .40's. An original 4006 first year production and a Sig 229. I even tried them in my 1006 and surprisingly they worked.

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S&W Accumulator

I would say that the assertion that 9mm Luger is equally as effective as .40 S&W speaks volumes about its reputation as a self-defense/duty cartridge.

Honestly, the FBI never even claimed that the switch was due to any particular fault of the cartridge, but merely because they found that modern 9mm Luger loads met their requirements for a duty cartridge, so that along with the 9mm's advantages in magazine capacity and price made the decision to switch over a no-brainer for them.

The .40 S&W still has its place as cartridge for those who desire something will a bit more oomph than 9mm, yet greatly magazine capacity and barrier penetration than .45 ACP.

Personally, I feel that .40 S&W makes the most sense in full-size, double-stack semiautomatic pistols, where its disadvantages versus the 9mm in terms of magazine capacity and felt recoil are less pronounced. In the event in which more citizens felt the need to carry larger, higher capacity firearms, I could see the .40 S&W in higher demand, but right now compact 9mm pistols are all the rage due to their light weight and concealability. Nobody makes lightweight, compact .40 S&W pistols anymore besides Smith & Wesson themselves because they tend to be considered excessive in terms of recoil.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

One of the fantastic things about progress is that we have technology avaulable to do our own tests. Ballistic gelatin is available and relatively cheap. I performed my own experiments and put them on YouTube, as have many others.

It's funny you should mention the 5,7 X 28mm caliber. If U.S. law enforcement were truly concerned about mitigating risk, they probably SHOULD consider adopting it. The reputation is that of cop killer but the reality is the light 27 grain bullets can't retain too much energy after hitting flesh. My experiments got pretty disappointing penetration, IIRC but the wound tracks were NASTY. I love my Five-seveN but it's rather bulky for concealed carry. I imagine it would excel as a duty sidearm.

My bottom line is I carry mostly .40 as my EDC. It's just what I like and I love my P224.

Not in my experience.

I'm not a 40 S&W hater but have no desire to own one.

Supposedly the 5.7x28 cartridge and the FN FiveSeveN pistol was originally poised to replace 9mm Parabellum within NATO forces worldwide back in the early 2000s, but the German delegation allegedly protested solely out of national pride over the German 9mm and the competing H&K 4.6x30 being rejected in favor of the French 5.7x28, which slowed the whole thing down to a crawl until it's was eventually dropped altogether.

So yeah, apparently the 5.7x28 cartridge performed well enough to convince the majority of NATO forces to dump 9mm in favor of it at one point in time. How well it would have actually performed in combat is anybody's guess, but it would have been interesting to see how it turned out.

Seriously, I wish the "What if Machine" from Futurama was real, because I would love to see how that would have worked out, not to mention if certain 9mm Fanboys I've seen online who push it as the best just because it's the most popular duty cartridge would be influenced by it. (i.e. Would those same people be making the exact same statements over 5.7x28 or would they still love 9mm and claim that the military was foolish to replace it?)
Ah, but then again, I would also love to see how folks in general would react if something impossibly crazy were to happen such as the FBI reviving the Gyrojet as their primary duty cartridge, complete with outrageous claims about how modern CNC machining have made the Gyrojet equally reliable to conventional centerfire cartridges, just to see how much influence over worldwide Law Enforcement and civilians they have. I'm actually fairly certain that a large amount of folks on gun forums would immediately be rushing out to buy Gyrojet pistols then singing the praises of the cartridge, how it was ahead of its time, how revolutionary it is, and how it's better than everything else because it works better underwater and possibly in the vacuum of outerspace, complete with silly arguments against how it having virtually no energy at the muzzle is easily mitigated by simply putting enough space between you and your attacker for it to pick up sufficient speed to actually harm them rather than being deflected off their torso.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I didn't read all of the responses, but my experience has been positive with a 40 cal pistol. In my case, I purchased the optional 357 Sig barrel and a 9mm conversion barrel, so I now have 3 calibers in just one pistol. Additionally, in 40 cal, there are many various bullet weights and speeds; making the ammo selection performance very versatile -light and fast or heavy and slow. And as other have already stated, there are many good deals to be had on 40 cal pistols.

I like my two 40's, an XD service and S&W Pro. both are great for IDPA as I load them down to meet PF and I feel more of a push than a snap like the 9. Carrying the XD in Sparks Versa Max is very comfortable too. albeit not as comfortable as my XDS in 9, my only 9.

A bit off topic but one day I was shooting the Pro in a match and several guys commented on the smoke from my gun. Told them they were my own cast bullets and it didn't bother me at all finding the targets. I asked them what they were paying for their factory stuff. I then told them I was loading mine for less than $4 a 100 as I had free lead. They didn't say much after that.

Have a Sig P239 in 49 S&W and enjoy shooting it. Unfortunately the bean counters at Sig decided to stop making them when I heard that I called up a local dealer and got the last two magazines for my P239. Never failed to function and carried it with complete confidence. Mostly shoot the WWB 165 grain FMJ for practice and for carry I use Federal Hydrashocks. But with the increasing number of carry permit holders who carry I've switched to 9mm as you can carry more cartridges than a 40 S&W. My other Sig is a West German. P6 which is also a single stack 8 rounds. Never failed to qualify with either Sig. Frank

Yep, just like the 5.7 round. Not many experiences to draw from.

Side questions: Do you get more points, using the .40 in your matches? How do you cope with leading in the barrel?

Don't really know about the points but since a tad larger it may make some difference some time. Re leading, it is a small problem in both my 40's. Only caliber I have a problem with. Tried larger sizing, not much improvenment. Now trying a different lube and that has really helped but still get some.

Removing it is easier than removing copper, and fast. I take either a mop or brush and wrap some copper (not copper coated) chore boy or the like around them and the lead just scrapes out. Four pr five passes, clean almost 100%.

When I get into new house I am going to try powder coating, that should solve that. But that's just because I want to play with it. Current cleaning method is really no problem.

Elementary logic: if your premise is wrong, your conclusion will be wrong.

The .40 S&W is a shortened 10MM. After exhaustive testing at the FBI Firearms Testing Unit at Quantico, VA, it was scientifically proved that 10MM projectiles were most efficacious using 180 grain bullets at a nominal velocity of 1000 FPS. With that scientific fact established, it didn't require genius to figure out that shortening the 10MM case that would achieve scientific criteria of 180 grains at ~1000 FPS and work in double-stack mags would be most beneficial to law enforcement.

The .40 S&W was never a compromise round. That people believe that myth is proof of the ease with which propaganda flies around the 'net. It almost as bad as the 'net myth that the FBI dropped the 10MM because its cops couldn't withstand its recoil.

Remember this simple law of logic: if your premise is wrong, your conclusion will be wrong.

I do not know why the FBI has transitioned to the 9MM nor do I know whether it actually has.

Assuming it has, there is nothing valid that can be extrapolated from such a transition. The revealing indicator is handgun/cartridge its cops opt to carry.The agency might issue the 9MM, but that doesn't mean its cops will carry it. My guess is the 1911-A1 .45 Auto, Springfield Armory's FBI Gun (or SA's TRP), will be the most common handgun carried by FBI cops.