S&W 1917 and .45 ACP P+

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Ray

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I Bought yesterday some .45 ACP P+ for defensive situations. Is the use of a few rounds , say a cylinder full, liable to cause serious damage to my brazilian?
How the pressure ( CUP) of both loads, conventional and P+ compare ?
Thanks, Regards, Ray
 
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SAAMI standards for the 2 cartridges are:

.45 ACP - 21,000 PSI
.45 ACP +P - 23,000 PSI

There's less than 10% difference between the two, so with the caveat that I know nothing about you particular revolver, it is probably safe. You mentioned CUP, but SAAMI doesn't list a CUP standard for the +P load.
 
Just like firing 38 Special +P in S&W 38 Special revolvers that pre-date the model number system, it will not blow up your revolver, but it will accelerate wear and tear. I would approach it the same way as with 38 Special revolvers, practice with standard pressure ammo, finish practice with one cylinder full of +P for sight-in and familiarization.

With modern bullets like Federal's HST, Speer's Gold Dot, Remington's Golden Saber, and Winchester's Ranger T, the extra velocity of +P ammo is not required for adequate and reliable expansion. With modern bullets, +P often causes faster expansion, but at the expense of reduced penetration.
 
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stansdds said:
Just like firing 38 Special +P in S&W 38 Special revolvers that pre-date the model number system, it will not blow up your revolver, but it will accelerate wear and tear. I would approach it the same way as with 38 Special revolvers, practice with standard pressure ammo, finish practice with one cylinder full of +P for sight-in and familiarization.

With modern bullets like Federal's HST, Speer's Gold Dot, Remington's Golden Saber, and Winchester's Ranger T, the extra velocity of +P ammo is not required for adequate and reliable expansion. With modern bullets, +P often causes faster expansion, but at the expense of reduced penetration.
Click to expand...

In my younger days I used a lot of +P and even +P+ type loads in a number of 1917s and even a shaved S&W 2nd model with british markings. I didn't care. They were cheap and not regarded as collectible and I regarded them as a "poor mans magnum". I no longer do that. I also don't think that a few +P for familiarization and a cylinder full at the end of a practice session will hurt your extremely fine revolver. and for defense they will be great.
 
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I wouldn't subject my 1917, 37 or my 1950 model to +p .45s. There are to many guns out there more capable of handing those loads.
 
There is little practical advantage in using +P ammo in anything as opposed to using standard pressure loads, though the gunfighting theorists might disagree. Learn to shoot well; far more important than +P.

Were the 1917 revolvers even heat-treated? I don't know, but perhaps another good reason not to use +P in a gun that's a hundred years old.
 
What is the minimum thickness of the cylinder, at the notch? About 0.023 inch? How much pressure do you want against that thin piece of steel?
 
rockquarry said:
...Were the 1917 revolvers even heat-treated? I don't know, but perhaps another good reason not to use +P in a gun that's a hundred years old...
Click to expand...

Yes, the military required the cylinders of the 1917s to be heat treated. The first of the S&W revolvers to be heated treated. After that, it was phased in to all of the line I believe.

As for firing +P in a 1917? I have between several and many ACP revolvers. Because I have some modern ones in the group I use those for heavier loads. The 1917s and even the 1950 get hardball or handloaded equivalents. Just my choice. I do not expect expansion at handgun velocities and prefer a larger meplat to increase effectiveness.


Kevin
 
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Ray said:
I Bought yesterday some .45 ACP P+ for defensive situations. Is the use of a few rounds , say a cylinder full, liable to cause serious damage to my brazilian?
How the pressure ( CUP) of both loads, conventional and P+ compare ?
Thanks, Regards, Ray
Click to expand...

Ray,

Do you have another Brazilian Model or are we talking about that pristine specimen you showed us a while ago?

Kevin
 
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No Kevin, that´s my only one. My concern was about shooting a very few P+ in it.
I presume, from the gathered info here, that a few rounds, say 10 or 20 won´t damage or significantly wear the gun.
However as of today since I aquired it the 1917 was never shot. Intend to do this soon.

Regards, Ray
 
The Model 22 of 1917 was the 1st gun I purchased in LV 10 years ago. I had intended to order some of that BB .45ACP higher velocity ammo, but I was surprised to discover the revolver kicked like heck with standard ball ammo, so I decided not to. I do have a moon clip with Super Vel .45ACP from the past should it become necessary.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
 
Groo here
As the gun is built for mil spec 45 acp and fmj is what we shoot most
of the time, there is little use for +P'
Unless you you have a "slow" gun and need to insure bullet deformation.
It is a "45" after all.
All mine are recent made capable of +p and 45 super level loads
But I use ball most of the time.
 
Just so everyone is aware, Ray is in South America and I am not sure about ammunition availability. And the 1917 he is talking about is one of the finest 1917s most of us have seen.

Hopefully Ray will post some photographs.

Kevin
 
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