38 Super

panther · Oct 22, 2020

A local shop has a Metro Arms American Classic II 1911 in 38 Super. It's in like new condition. I found out that this shop, and at least one other shop in town, have plenty of ammo in stock.
I'm real tempted to pick this up but I have never shot or owned a 38 Super before.
What can I expect from this caliber? Is it softer then 45acp? More like a 9mm?
I noticed alot of the ammo available for this right now is +P. Is that what you would use in a 1911 or is that more for a service pistol?
Thanks.

SAFireman · Oct 22, 2020

Pretty much all 38 Super is marked +p to distinguish it from ammo that would be used in the older Colt Semi auto that shot 38 ACP.

I got my first 38 Super not long ago. My dad and I shot it at a local indoor range. All I can say is - It wont be for sale any time soon, and if it is, my dad has 1st dibs. it really is a sweet shooter (even in a Commander).

jake1945 · Oct 22, 2020

Years ago I owned a Colt 38 super which was amazingly accurate at 25 yards. When I shook it, it rattled like a marble in a tin can, but, like I said it was accurate. At that time I also owned a Colt series 70 that was tight as a drum head, but was miserably inaccurate. Go figure. Wish I still had that Colt 38 super. Recoil was moderate too, like a 9mm.

Old Corp · Oct 22, 2020

About 2 years ago, I picked up a new RIA M1911-A1 'GI style' in .38 Super.
Mainly wanted it 'cuz after years of reading about the cartridge and it's history, it intrigued me. Already had 1911's in 9mm, 10mm and various .45's.

Abhorring the GI sights, first thing I did was ship the slide to Novak and have decent carry sights on it.
Got rid of the slick Junglewood grips and replaced with VZ 'double diamond' Cherrywood-look grips that look very GI-era but are very tactile.

Collected a few MecGar mags.

Saw that the RIA Supers have a fully supported chamber and started pretty intensively researching load data. Much of what's commonly available accounts for unsupported chambers and is fairly mild - not much beyond 9mm performance.

Started loading it with upper-end loads using both 115 gr and 125 gr JHP's. Hey - it's a Philippine beer-budget pistol, so I didn't expect a whole lot in the function and accuracy department.
I was sorely surprised!
Function was 100% and accuracy far beyond expectations.

The 125 gr JHP handloads are running in the same velocity range as .357 Mag., with no pressure signs.
Recoil less than real 10mm or .45.

So, I've become a fan, only problem is keeping a brass supply - it flings brass pretty far and my range is all grass, and I'm lazy about putting down a collection sheet or tarp.

Good luck.

saemetric · Oct 22, 2020

My favorite shooter 1911 in 38 Super

peh_7 · Oct 22, 2020

I have an RIA 22TCM/9mm combo that I fitted a Kart Precision 38 Super barrel to and load and shoot with 38 Super Comp. It has about the same accuracy as my Colt Gold Cup series 70 in 45ACP.

Valmet · Oct 22, 2020

.38 Super is a fantastic cartridge. Kind-of like a super-charged 9mm. Here is mine built by Frank Glenn out in Arizona.

505Gibbs · Oct 22, 2020

A 38 Super is a 9mm on significant steroids and it starts with a heavier bullet[130g vs the typical 115g for the 9mm although there are heavier 9mm weights available].
I only have one revolver BUT 2 Sigs and a Wilson 38 Super so I guess I like it!!

clang444 · Oct 22, 2020

Nice round, but expensive to feed if you don't reload.

Make sure you collect your brass if you do reload.

tndrfttom · Oct 22, 2020

The other posters have pretty well covered the power/ballistics of 38 Super cartridge. The Metro Arms American Classic II pistols are well made and reliable (another nice handgun made in the Philippines). Good spare magazines are slightly more expensive than the more popular 9mm and .45 ACP mags. I got a cheap one that wouldn't lock the slide back on the last round until the follower was adjusted. The Colt factory mags are good; MecGars too.

SweetMK · Oct 22, 2020

I had a real good friend that did a LOT of trading in guns,,
he had three Colt 38 Super pistols, and would never price one of them to me,,
He would shoot them, and brag about them,,

Well, I heard from another guy that Jim had his 38 Supers for sale,,
I called him, they were gone,,

Well, it turned out that Jim knew he had cancer, and with only months to live, finally sold the 38 Supers,,

ars1876 · Oct 22, 2020

I have 4, 2 Kimbers, Colt, RIA . Plenty of ammo out there and Star Line brass . What's not to like .

Buford57 · Oct 22, 2020

With a full mag and one up the pipe it equals my .357s with two speedloaders. EAA Witness.

panther · Oct 22, 2020

This pistol has been in the shop for 2 weeks. I took an interest in it yesterday, researched it today, went to the shop after work and they had sold it. They sold all but one box of their 38 super ammo too, $29 for a 50rd box.
You need to buy it when you find it. It's an old saying that often proves true.

vonn · Oct 22, 2020

My favorite 1911 both full and commander size! Plenty of punch and extra capacity!

SuperMan · Oct 22, 2020

SAFireman;140938708}I got my first 38 Super not long ago. My dad and I shot it at a local indoor range. All I can say is - It wont be for sale any time soon said:
Lord a Mighty where you and your Dad been!!! Best semi-auto pistol round ever and you just bought one.... ;-)

Being SuperMan...I'm the Man of Many Supers, not the other guy...

I also got intrigued with the .38 Super back in the late 1960s after reading several articles about the round but it wasn't till 1980 that I bought my first two about a week apart...an unfired 1969 SUPER .38 and a 1952 Commander. Have carried one of two 1952 Commanders just about daily ever since...

The original Colt made 1911s had a chamber that headspaced the round on the case rim not the case mouth like Colt did with the .45 ACP. This was a holdover from the way the 1903 Model was headspaced. In 1929 when Colt introduced the SUPER .38 1911 the round it shot was the .38 ACP...there was no such cartridge as a .38 Super. Short story is there ended up being the .38 ACP and the .38 Super because the hot rodded .38 ACP rounds that Remington made up beat the 1903s to death just like a .38-44 with beat up a J-Frame. Unfortunately the headspacing on the case rim lead to headspace and accuracy problems that were not solved till the late 1960s.

My two first guns were a train wreck...at 50 yards the SUPER .38 ran 3'...that is FEET groups and the Commander 18". Fortunately another member here I used to work with way back when had read a HANDLOADER MAGAZINE article describing the problem and a cure...a BarSto barrel...and the groups from the same box of ammo went to 3" for the SUPER .38 and 3.5" for the Commander. Colt did not correct the problem till 1990. No other manufacturer ever used the headspace on the case rim chamber style and most guns are superbly accurate...

Some good reading....

38 Super

Corbon

How Does

Four-Caliber STII... | 1911Forum

Trail gun perfection: Kimber's .38 super stainless target II. - Free Online Library

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-accurate-38-super-loads/326242

...my #1 semi-auto round...the .41 being my favorite revolver round...

Bob

1952 Commander carried from 1980-2007
1952 Commander carried from 2007 till today
1969 SUPER .38 that was my first Super...

SuperMan · Oct 22, 2020

PS...

Super ammo although is rated +P as a poster baove said it is just to keep people with 1903 AUTOs from putting the higher velocity rounds in their guns... Unfortunately to add attorney induced insult to injury most Remington, Winchester and Federal ammo is watered down to the point it is safe to shoot in the old guns..like 1150-1275 fps in most of their loads.

"Real" .38 Super ammo starts a 125 grain bullet at 1350 fps and 115s at 1450. I am shooting Underwood 90 grain Extreme Defender that clocks 1560 from a Commander and 1640 from a 5"....best defensive and hunting ammo is made by the smaller companies...

Underwood
Buffalo Bore
Reed's Ammo
Georgia Arms

And the nice thing about a 1911 in .38 Super...add a new barrel, recoil spring and magazine in 9mm or 9x23 Winchester can you can have three rounds on one platform...

Bob

Grayfox · Oct 22, 2020

I like the .38 Super and own four of 'em. Three Colts. A Series 80 Government Model, a 1991 Combat Commander and an old 1952 Lightweight Commander. The LW suffers from the old headspace on rim problem and isn't very accurate.

However the other two are fine shooters.

I also own a Rock Island Armory 1911A1 in .38 Super. Found it cheap at a gun show. That poor thing was a jam-o-matic. I discovered that the cases were hanging up in the breach face. I suspect they made those with 9mm slides. I opened up the breach face ever so slightly for the semi-rimmed Super cartridge and its run like a champ ever since.

stansdds · Oct 23, 2020

The Colt 38 Super cartridge is what the 9mm Luger cartridge wants to be when it grows up. Seriously, the 38 Super provides ballistics of the 9mm +P+ and perhaps just a tiny bit more.

Old Corp · Oct 23, 2020

I like to think of the modern .38 Super, loaded properly, as sort of a straight-case version of the .357 SIG.
The agencies I know that use the .357 SIG have had excellent results from the cartridge's performance.

38 Super

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